27
   

Homework isn't a test. As long as they are transcribing it themselves it serves its purpose.

 
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 01:33 am
@dadpad,
Personal conversation: God
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 01:35 am
Pers comm can only be applied to real people not imaginary friends roger.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 01:43 am
@dadpad,
But your likelyhood of being challenged depends on exactly where you are living and schooling. Eastern Oklahoma is good; Kansas ain't all that bad, either.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 01:50 am
@dadpad,
Quote:
I see it as no different to asking granddad or your next door neighbour.


Except that the granddad & the next door neighbour most likely know the student a whole lot better than we do. Often these requests are from "one off" posters we've never come in contact with before & we never hear from again.
And the granddad & the next door neighbour can actually see the work that has already been done, so might well have a much clearer picture of where the student's difficulties with the particular project might actually be.

It is extremely hard, I think, to communicate this sort of detailed information online. And to get a really clear picture about the nature of the assistance that is required, requires a lot more information than (mostly) we have access to.
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 02:05 am
As a teacher, this has been a really interesting thread for me. It has been interesting to read other people's insights into the "problem of homework", say nothing of the discussion about the ethics of online assistance.

I think I've come to the conclusion that we should encourage students to ask (constantly!) for clarification & assistance from their teachers when they genuinely don't "get" the nature of the task they've been presented with. And ideally NOT at the 11th hour, when their homework is just about due! Wink
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 05:55 am
@msolga,
Quote:
It is extremely hard, I think, to communicate this sort of detailed information online. And to get a really clear picture about the nature of the assistance that is required, requires a lot more information than (mostly) we have access to.


I've responded to people who do respond, and whose response has been "I knew that, what i need to know is blah-blah." Well, to that i usually respond "Then why the hell did you ask?"--although, if in a more expansive mood, i might deal with "blah-blah." So, not only do we often not have sufficient information, these people often resent us for not reading their minds, or for not looking beyond the simple answers to their questions. It sometimes is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

This is not the same as it is with relationship questions, or how do i find an apartment in Geelong, or what should i pay for motels in Sandusky--people in those situations usually accept that people are going to provide an answer commensurate with the question. Many of the "homework" type of question seem to assume that we can read minds. Of course, we are likely to have immature and un-self-aware people asking these questions. And that accounts in large measure for the alleged lack of patience with such questions and those who ask them.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 06:40 am
@Setanta,
If I had the internet when I was in High school, what with the majority of the kids still not able to properly study, I would have ruled the world by opening "Homework Central" and charging fees for answers. Id be a bazillionaire/

The kids that appear here and ask such relly basic questions demonstrate their lack of study and research skills.

If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day: If you teach a man to fish, he will drink all your beer and hog up your boat with trash.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 06:46 am
I used to make cash writing papers for the clueless when i was in college. I had a single rule, which was that i never wrote papers for frat boys. Otherwise, no subject was off limits for me. Even then (1960s), standards were so lax, that i could approach a subject about which i knew nothing, and get all the info i needed to write several pages in a single trip to the library, using the very simple rules we were given in history classes. It applied to any topic.

I can only imagine how much worse it is today.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jan, 2010 08:17 am
@dadpad,
dadpad wrote:
"pers comm" is a legit reference in anyones book.


not in most homework assignments young people get these days

it's almost as bad as using wikipedia as a reference - not accepted by any good teacher
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 07:09 am
You weak ass kids are going to make some inferior Americans if you don't do your homework.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jan, 2010 10:56 am
@dadpad,
dadpad wrote:
Part of learning is learning to think. I often asked teachers to teach my kids how to learn.
Part of learning is learning how to think for oneself.
Thay can do that here.

dadpad wrote:
I like to see some kind of effort by a kid.
I often ask "what do you think"
That sounds like a brush-off.


dadpad wrote:
or what have you got so far.

I try to guide or encorage the kid to figure out the answer rather
than provide potted knowledge. Sometimes i will post teasers that
can help a kid to begin thinking about the subject matter for themselves.
Yeah, like grammar.

0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 11:28 pm
I don't think using able2know as a citation is a big issue, the kind of homework questions we get (and that I was talking about) won't need to reference able2know at all.

But as a source for explanations on homework I think it's as valid as asking mom or dad. Most kids articulate their questions here quite lazily but if we really want to help them I think we could do better than the "do your own homework" brush off and engage them a bit. I like the approach of those who ask what the student has so far, and who wait and see how much effort they are going to put into it.

At least once I've seen the student come back and engage us well too, from an opening question that was lazy (by that I mean it was one of those "what's the answer to this essay question" ones) and they actually had done a fair bit of the work so far and were more than willing to continue (and the links that then flowed in helped).

I have a suspicion that many of the opening posts are lazier than our own average because they are part of a flurry of activity across many websites (e.g. the user is registering on several potential websites and hasn't committed to actually using any of them yet) and that kind of approach helps find out who is willing to come back and think it out with some help.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 11:44 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I agree with that, rg.


Me, I'm plotzed with my niece. She is experiential and savvy, but has lived a life with a mother with layers of problems showing up as crazy on Los Angeles streets, and a father the crazed mother accused. I won't go there except to say my very bright niece (from both parents) has been computer isolated.

In contrast to many of us, she has only a mild drive to buying her own computer (she's years behind)... but is not at all without ambition. But, because of her non conversance with the internet, she can misjudge a lot, and I, of all people, can't clue her in from here.

Meantime, she needs to pass statistics, and she (historic trouble with math) is taking the course sans computer.

My point, if she needed help from here at a2k, I'd really really really like someone to give her some clues, and not answer with snot snot snot from the universe of knowledge above the askers.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jan, 2010 11:56 pm
@ossobuco,
I'll add, her father is a luddite of the first order and rather regimental, not an entire cad.

I figure she will explode out of this, or I hope so. But, it always sort of curls my toes when people mock the first time a2ker asking a question.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 12:11 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
I agree with that, rg.

Me, I'm plotzed with my niece.
Is that inebriated ?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 12:15 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
I'll add, her father is a luddite of the first order and rather regimental, not an entire cad.

I figure she will explode out of this, or I hope so.
But, it always sort of curls my toes when people mock the first time a2ker asking a question.
I agree. If I am able to, I 'll be of assistance.
I do not brush off school kids. I'm not impolite to them.
If I 'm unable to help, then I probably will not post.





David
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 12:17 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Huh? No, it means that I don't know what to do to help. There is too much going on that I cannot fix.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 12:20 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
Huh? No, it means that I don't know what to do to help.
There is too much going on that I cannot fix.
O, I thawt . . . .
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 12:24 am
@ossobuco,
Thank you for your interest, David. My niece is an adult now and not appropriate for either of us to talk about here. I posted mostly as an example about how I hate to see people slam newbies asking questions.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Jan, 2010 12:48 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
Thank you for your interest, David.
My niece is an adult now and not appropriate
for either of us to talk about here. [anonymous ?]


I posted mostly as an example about how I hate to see people slam newbies asking questions.
I share your feeling about that, Osso.
I believe in treating young people with respect.
Too ofen, I see them treated with disdain.


Like, I saw a 12 year old boy with his mother waiting to vote
at a polling place. I told him, truthfully, that if it were up to me, kids coud vote.

In my opinion, only as a citizen, there shoud be an elementary test
to ascertain whether a prospective voter knows the most basic
elements of what the election is about, regardless of the age of the prospective voter.

Acceptance of a voter shoud be based upon his elementary knowledge, not his age.
 

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