7
   

Am i a paedophile?

 
 
MASSAGAT
 
  1  
Sat 12 Dec, 2009 11:22 pm
Ionus- I think your analysis was perfect. I always wondered why some one (Phile )who was fond of children( Pedo) would be looked on as evil, but, according to the definitions found in dictionaries, Pedophiles are defined as those who are sexually attracted to children.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 12 Dec, 2009 11:29 pm
@MASSAGAT,
Quote:
Pedophiles are defined as those who are sexually attracted to children.


And there is the problem: that the crime is considered to be the eroticising of children, not sexual interaction with children.

There is a slim argument to be made for considering the Eroticizing of children to be a mental illness requiring intervention from the state, there is ZERO justification for considering it a crime.

We as individuals are not responsible for our thoughts, feelings or our fantasies, we are responsible only for our actions. Criminalizing desire is abuse of the individual at the hands of the state.
Ionus
 
  0  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:16 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
that the crime is considered to be the eroticising of children
Ever seen a beauty pageant for children ? Preschoolers wearing make-up and lip stick. It seems it is perfectly legal if women do it to their daughters.
Quote:
we are responsible only for our actions
Apparently not. The thought police have arrived.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:35 am
@elflex,
elflex wrote:
Strictly speaking the definition of paedophilia is attraction girls under 13, but if they are pre-pubescent. If science is correct some girls are post-pubescent at 11 nowadays.


A key component to the diagnosis is that you are primarily or exclusively attracted to the pre-pubescent age group.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:46 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Ever seen a beauty pageant for children


OH, you must be talking about this:
Quote:
Unfortunately, the ghost of JonBenet with its disparaging foregrounding of children as commodities, reduced to sexualized ornaments in fake tans, capped teeth, and over-the-top makeup has returned with a vengeance with a slew of shows like "Little Miss Perfect," "Little Beauties" and the wildly popular reality-based docudrama, "Toddlers & Tiaras," which is being shown with no irony intended on The Learning Channel. "Toddlers & Tiaras" takes its audiences backstage at child beauty pageants from all over the country, offering up to viewers a spectacularized snapshot of what kids as young as a few months old have to go through as they and their moms (and some dads) prepare them to compete in the pageants. The first episode highlighted three girls who were 2, 6 and 9 years old. We follow each of the three families from South Carolina to Austin, Texas, as they coach, cajole and prepare their kids for the ordeal of becoming a reigning pint-sized beauty queen. The images of these kids dressed up like little adults with the moms insisting that they be spray tanned, adorn fake nails and eyelashes, and wear more makeup on their faces than the late Tammy Faye Baker once used is harder to watch than even the cheesy dance routines in which they learn to swing their hips and flip their hair back in a shameful, highly eroticised manner. Watching a two-year old parade around the stage in a velcro rip-away outfit in stripper-like fashion induces more than repulsion; it also raises questions about the limits of subjecting kids to such pornographic practices and the distorted values these pageants provide for them

http://www.truthout.org/051109A

Never been, but I did know a woman who is now 19 when she was 6, who did pageants for years. Her mother loved it, the kid did it because all of her sibs were boys and she never got any of daddy's attention. She figured that if she was a child sex object he would notice her. It seems by her mom's facebook page that she no longer has any use for mom or dad, so I gotta wonder how she feels about her BP years.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:47 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Pedophiles are defined as those who are sexually attracted to children.


And there is the problem: that the crime is considered to be
the eroticising of children, not sexual interaction with children.
On that point, as I remember, the federal law against child porn INCLUDES fully dressed children
whose pictures r taken from some angle that someone else does not like.

very severe criminal penalties for violation
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:55 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
On that point, as I remember, the federal law against child porn INCLUDES fully dressed children whose pictures r taken from some angle that someone else does not like.


I think that this is correct, as well as when it is decided that the photo is taken by or looked at by a person who eroticizes children. This of course requires the police state to crawl into the heads of individuals to decide why they are clicking and looking which is a worse abuse of the individual than your example.

And as we talked about long ago with agrote, even comics and digital depictions of erotocized children are illegal, which is complete and utter bullshit.

But kids acting like stippers on stage at a BP, that is fine. What a warped world we live in.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:20 am
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:
Andy Warhol was also a fameophile...
Quote:
In the future everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes.
May It Please the Tsar:
On the evening of Monday Dec. 14th, 2009, I am putting the Opulent Mensan Special Interest Group
into a restaurant once owned by Vice President Aaron Burr, before he slew America 's first Secretary of the Treasury,
Alex Hamilton: One If By Land, Two If By Sea at 17 Barrow Street in Greenwich Village,
a few steps East of 7th Ave. Its known particularly for its Beef Wellington.

Since Your Majesty resides in Astoria, perhaps u 'd care to attend.
Prix fixe: $78 + $8 for Beef Wellington. (It's worth it.)
Chef 's Tasting Menu: $105 For an extra $45,
Your Majesty can get White Shaved Truffles added to the appetizer or main course.





David
Ionus
 
  0  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 02:42 am
So why isnt the law enacted against mothers who dress up there 5 yr old daughters to look like prostitutes ?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 03:03 am
@Ionus,
I think the question is why do we spend so much time and energy teaching girls to be objects of sexual desire only to then make the male who desires them a criminal??

The answer is that we dont like men very much. The pussy whipped male is the new ideal in theory. The problem is that in practice neither sex gets what they need when the females are in charge.

Equality would be a refreshing change of pace.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 04:36 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I think the question is why do we spend so much time and energy teaching
girls to be objects of sexual desire . . .
I don 't know, but I suspect that it is instinctive.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 05:38 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I don 't know, but I suspect that it is instinctive.

Yes, I think so as well, it is the acting out of what evolution has written into the genetic code. The Criminalizing of desire is something else, it is the head trying to overrule and overwrite the genetic code. It is the head trying to deny what we are, it is at its base anti-human.

This prudish, ignorant, mean spirited American Puritanism refuses to die.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I don 't know, but I suspect that it is instinctive.

Yes, I think so as well, it is the acting out of what evolution has written into the genetic code.
The Criminalizing of desire is something else, it is the head trying
to overrule and overwrite the genetic code. It is the head trying
to deny what we are, it is at its base anti-human.

This prudish, ignorant, mean spirited American Puritanism refuses to die.
It has some kind of a basis in the emotions.
I have no idea what, nor how that works.

I got used to the idea, the definition, that pornografy
was the portrayal of erotica in human life, or minimally the depiction of NUDITY.
Most of that is legal now in America, not including representations of children.

Accordingly, I believed that taking or just possessing
a picture of a child or youthful adult
(the burden of proof as to age is on the defendant,
as I remember -- I have not read the statute for a few years,
what we call an "affirmative defense") was First Amendment protected and safe,
if the child or young adult was fully clothed and was not involved in mating with anyone.

On reading the most recent federal statute, I saw that there are
also penalties of very major prison time for taking pictures
or just possessing pictures of children
who are fully clothed and not involved in any sex,
depending on whether the picture is deemed porn by someone else.
That criminal law also applies to possessing pictures of young adults,
unless the defendant can PROVE that thay are of voting age.
That even applies to young men, not just girls.
Maybe the look on her face or his face is what is criminal to possess a picture of.
The basic philosophy that underlies such criminal legislation
shoud be anathema in any free country.

I m no photografer, but as an American citizen, I wonder
what my country has come to; scary. What 's next?

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:39 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Tsar Stepan

Royal Sir:


Here is a link,
in case Your Majesty wants to look it over:

http://www.oneifbyland.com/


tsarstepan wrote:
Andy Warhol was also a fameophile...
Quote:
In the future everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes.
May It Please the Tsar:
On the evening of Monday Dec. 14th, 2009, I am putting the Opulent Mensan Special Interest Group
into a restaurant once owned by Vice President Aaron Burr, before he slew America 's first Secretary of the Treasury,
Alex Hamilton: One If By Land, Two If By Sea at 17 Barrow Street in Greenwich Village,
a few steps East of 7th Ave. Its known particularly for its Beef Wellington.

Since Your Majesty resides in Astoria, perhaps u 'd care to attend.
Prix fixe: $78 + $8 for Beef Wellington. (It's worth it.)
Chef 's Tasting Menu: $105 For an extra $45,
Your Majesty can get White Shaved Truffles added to the appetizer or main course.





David
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 12:47 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I m no photografer, but as an American citizen, I wonder
what my country has come to; scary. What 's next?



which rolls around to my thread here: http://able2know.org/topic/138592-1 which got not a single response which makes me wonder about the vaunted intelligence and morality of a2k members because by all rights it should have been a barn burner........... which said the linked piece:
Quote:
Harvey A. Silverglate, a left-wing civil liberties lawyer in Boston, says he has been surprised and delighted by the reception that his new book, “Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent,” has gotten in conservative circles. (A Heritage Foundation official offered this reporter a copy.)

The book argues that federal criminal law is so comprehensive and vague that all Americans violate it every day, meaning prosecutors can indict anyone at all.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I m no photografer, but as an American citizen, I wonder
what my country has come to; scary. What 's next?



which rolls around to my thread here: http://able2know.org/topic/138592-1 which got not a single response which makes me wonder about the vaunted intelligence and morality of a2k members because by all rights it should have been a barn burner........... which said the linked piece:
Quote:
Harvey A. Silverglate, a left-wing civil liberties lawyer in Boston, says he has been surprised and delighted by the reception that his new book, “Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent,” has gotten in conservative circles. (A Heritage Foundation official offered this reporter a copy.)

The book argues that federal criminal law is so comprehensive and vague that all Americans violate it every day, meaning prosecutors can indict anyone at all.

AGREED. It 's alarming and sickening and very dangerous.
U better not get on their bad side.
(Please note that I did not ignore nor intentionally boycott your thread.)

I became pointedly aware of this fact around maybe ten years ago,
when I attended a seminar on employment law. The audience
consisted of about maybe 300 attorneys who were singularly interested in that,
and on the stage were about 6 very, very senior experts,
held in hi professional esteem in their chosen area.
Many questions issued from the attending audience attorneys,
which were answered by the high experts.

Qua one of the questions, there was considerable discussion
up on the stage among those experts, who considered the legal
effects of several federal statutes concerning the question presented,
together with the combined effects of interpretive judicial decisions in precedent,
and applicative administrative regulations, upon whose basis,
thay rendered their answer of what to do in those circumstances.

A few moments later, an attorney behind me raised her hand
and asked, following up, about the effects of a statute of NY
State upon their advice.

That turned it around completely; a client who was so advised
woud have been exposed to liability from that statute
for following the combined opinion of all the senior experts there.

Quad est demonstratum:
regardless of good faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a law abiding citizen in America.
djjd62
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
i'm not an american so i have no vested interest in your laws

i also have no idea, nor do i care if the same things apply in canada, i live my life, have had no problems, i'm pretty sure i've done some things that contravene some laws, but have never been caught and don't have any paranoid fears that i will be

i will, as they say, burn that bridge before i cross it

wait, i'm not sure that's right
djjd62
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:21 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
i'm hurt david

i thought we were best buds, and not once have you invited me to your fancy schmancy swanky do
Crying or Very sad
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:23 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i'm not an american so i have no vested interest in your laws

i also have no idea, nor do i care if the same things apply in canada,
i live my life, have had no problems, i'm pretty sure i've done
some things that contravene some laws, but have never been
caught and don't have any paranoid fears that i will be

i will, as they say, burn that bridge before i cross it

wait, i'm not sure that's right
Will u wear fire-retardant clothing on your way across?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 13 Dec, 2009 01:26 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i'm hurt david

i thought we were best buds, and not once have you invited me to your fancy schmancy swanky do
Crying or Very sad

Canadia is too far away,
and I feared that u might burn the restaurant b4 u eat in it.
 

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