Proof of nonexistence of free will

@Love2Love,

There is no god. God is only in your imagination. Describe what your god looks like?

@cicerone imposter,

Hello, as l've explained:

Causation appears to be infinite.
Free will appears to have an infinite regression in reasoning too.
Free will appears to be independent of Causation (see recent posts of mine)
Causation logically has a First Cause, even if it be an infinity away.

Infinite + First Cause = traditional descriptions of God.
So, in the context of this thread, this answers your question on the appearance of God.

(Moreover l've explained that by implication, our free will is a subset of God, just as the background causation in the universe is, and so we are all a conversation God has had with himself, it's frozen in time as there's no time at the level of God per se because infinity has nothing to add, there's no change, it's perfect) <--- there you go , some more descriptions of God, all based on logic. Thank you Smile

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@Love2Love,

You need to study the evolution of this planet and of homo sapiens. You're stuck on your religious' beliefs which have been proven wrong by science.
a. Age of planet earth. Bible, 7,000 years old. Science, 4.55 billion years old.
b. Bible's errors and contradictions, https://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html
c. The bible was written at a time the writers were not aware or knew the existence of other cultures around the world. Those cultures also had gods older than the christian/Jewish god.
d. Why would any god declare the Jews the people of god, and not the whole of humanity? Is god a bigot?
e. Homo sapiens evolved from the primate family according to scientific findings. Proof: http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence

According to "godandscience.org."

Quote:

Unless those generations are only 6 years long, these verses indicate that humanity has been around much longer than 6,000 years. In most instances, a biblical generation is ~40 years long,14 meaning that human beings have been around for at least 40,000 years.

That's still wrong. Homo sapiens evolved from primates, and have existed for some 200,000 years. http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-sapiens I trust science over any 2,000 year old book claiming to know how homo sapiens came to be on this planet.

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@cicerone imposter,

Hello, as you are, once again, going off topic whilst ignoring my pertinent comments addressed to the topic, and ignoring my pertinent replies to your questions, l shall stop talking to you. I'm not even Chrsitian. Goodbye.

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@Love2Love,

You wrote,

Quote:

Infinite + First Cause = traditional descriptions of God.

It's not only about christianity, it's about all religions with gods.

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@Love2Love,

Quote:

Causation appears to be infinite.
Free will appears to have an infinite regression in reasoning too. . .

If causation is infinite but there appears to be a physical beginning to the universe does that mean causation and free will are not physical in nature?

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@cicerone imposter,

Some people refuse to live with the facts. That they can't even describe their god is a huge problem. Man is made in god's image? LOL God can be all over the universe in our image? Does god have a stomach? Does he have sex, and does he pee? What kind of food does he eat? Is he allowed to drink liquor?
Free will exists to the extent of what's allowed by society, and our legal system.

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@cicerone imposter,

God built the system for intelligent beings that think like him. That is how we resemble God and how we think and act not in how we look. God is able to live outside of the universe. One day he decided to live inside the universe and became a man after that he ate and Peed because he submitted himself to the universe he created. This would be like if you created an ant hill and the ants in it and then you decided to became an ant.

If God hadn't decided to become a human we never would've been able to relate to him on an intimate level as an individual.

How would've you done it if you would've been God ?

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@brianjakub,

bj, There is no god. Gods are only in the imagination of people who wish to believe in such a thing. Religion is based on faith, and faith only. That's because nobody can produce any evidence of their god(s). http://atheism.wikia.com/wiki/How_many_gods%3F

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@cicerone imposter,

The belief that matter and life popped into existence without intelligence initiating exists only in the imagination of a bunch of cosmologists and physicists and just because they are great at math you believe their dreams are true. Their beliefs are pure speculation with no physical evidence and is based on faith and faith only.

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Religion is based on faith, and faith only. That's because nobody can produce any evidence of their god(s)

God (as Jesus Christ) stepped into the universe that He created and told us how he did it. He had a physical body that people physically saw. He physically rose from the dead at which point he turned nonliving matter into living matter. Thousands saw the physical evidence of the acts he physically performed and there fore it is reasonable to assume He did the physical acts (creation of the universe and everything in it) that he said he did but, nobody witnessed. So quit saying we have no evidence. it's more than you have. You have mathematical speculation from people that know very little about what actually happened. Here is what they don't know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_physics

Here is a big one from that wiki article:

Quote:

Fine-tuned Universe: The values of the fundamental physical constants are in a narrow range necessary to support carbon-based life.[10][11][12] Is this because there exist other universes with different constants, or are our universe’s constants the result of chance, or some other factor or process?

I suggest the "some other process" has something to do with someone capable of arranging all the quantum particles in the universe. One thing is for sure you and anybody who thinks otherwise is taking it on faith. If you don't could you please provide your scientific evidence you keep claiming you have.

And by the way, I believe Zeus and a lot of other godlike people were more than likely real people with godlike abilities when compared to ours but, they were not capable of creating the universe. So far the only person that appears to have those capabilities is Jesus.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

bj, There is no god. Gods are only in the imagination of people who wish to believe in such a thing. Religion is based on faith, and faith only. That's because nobody can produce any evidence of their god(s). http://atheism.wikia.com/wiki/How_many_gods%3F

Here is what atheistic philosophers don't know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_philosophy

Most of these unsolved mysteries were explained by Jesus also. There is no record Of Jesus lying plus if he is who he claims to be he would never have a reason to. So why not accept his explanation.

How many gods actually fit the characteristics that someone must have to create the universe you are experiencing.

1. Must be able to live outside the universe to create the universe.
2. must be able to create matter.
3. must have the intelligence to arrange it.
4. must be able to start life from non living matter.
5. must have a plan that makes sense so we can share it with him.
6. must be nearly (or actually be) perfect and all knowing to keep such a large system operating

My list contains Jesus Christ because he physically existed and physically provided evidence while having the required characteristics.

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@brianjakub,

So the reason we have free will is because Jesus did and we are like him just with limited capabilities compared to him.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Will have reasons/causes, they don't come out of the blue. On this regard, the expression Free will is a contradiction in terms. As for the randomness argument that doesn't grant you any more free willing since random implies you were not the cause of an X given action you just tossed a coin. More profoundly microbiologists recently have been looking at Humans as "superorganisms" on which 99% of the DNA you can find in yourself is from bacteria.You come to be aware of your NEEDS and call them choices but that is just semantics at work...

Here for the uninformed:

For more information check "my documentaries" thread!

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On brain plasticity:

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Although I seem to recall making some posts in this thread a while back, I know this whole "debate" is predictable and predictably unproductive.

An opinion on whether one has free will or not is generally self-realizing.

Those who say: "I'm just a programmed machine with no free will" are, in fact, programmed machines.

Those who say: "I'm a free spirit and I make decisions and take actions as I go along without being predestined to make particular choices" are, in fact, free spirits who make their own rules.

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@layman,

Human free will is restricted by our environment, society and our laws. You can add to that list money. Money provides the individual more flexibility than a person without money.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Very interesting lecture BTW, although he doesn't address the mind-body problem.

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@Olivier5,

I found it interesting to Olivier! Smile

From my pov although he speaks on brain and embodied intelligence fact is reductio he speaks of the body period as the mind is just an epiphenomenon of the workings of the brain and body plus environment with no free will!
I know I know, we are bound to agree to disagree on this one... Wink

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

the mind is just an epiphenomenon of the workings of the brain and body plus environment with no free will!

There's no such thing in the entire universe as an "epiphenomenon". It's sloppy logic to invent a vacuous concept and slap it on something you don't understand.

It would also be self-contradictory for a scientist to say that the human mind doesn't matter, since science IS a product of the human mind. That's perhaps why your guy never says such a thing: he knows better than to devaluate his own work and lecture.

The human mind has important functions, otherwise it wouldn't exist. That much should be obvious.

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Proof of nonexistence of free will

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