Proof of nonexistence of free will

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I think you are being deliberately dense.

I am usually deliberate. That's what free will is all about.

Cyracuz wrote:

Please tell me how it makes any sense to say that an idea can be nonexistent.

Everything can be nonexistent: ideas have no privilege here. But ideas are immaterial, they are possibilities, and you can always think of possibilities as nothing.

Cyracuz wrote:

If there are no nazis in the world, does that mean the same to you as that nazism doesn't exist?

You keep confusing concepts and ideas with our brains.

Cyracuz wrote:

What about the latin language? It is not spoken anywhere in the world. The only place you can find it is in books, same as unicorns. Does that mean that the latin language does not exist?

Ideas and concepts are not the written texts that express them.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

That's right. If you want to know anything about the Bible read it.

In this case, the financial market.

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@guigus,

Quote:

Everything can be nonexistent: ideas have no privilege here.

Would you please give an example of a nonexistent idea?

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Do you really believe you can know the Word directly ? hmmm...

Know the Word directly? What do you mean? Did you mean the world?

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
Everything can be nonexistent: ideas have no privilege here.

Would you please give an example of a nonexistent idea?

All ideas can be taken as nonexistent. An easy one would be an unicorn, which is just an idea, or the possibility of an actually nonexistent unicorn.

1 Reply

@guigus,

Now you are confusing an idea as a conceptual construct with an idea's actual contents.

Quote:

An easy one would be an unicorn, which is just an idea

So it is an idea that does not exist because it is just an idea?

Come on... I don't believe you are this stupid.

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@guigus,

I meant that reading in first hand still imply´s interpretation...I was being sarcastic...

1 Reply

Just found this very worth looking video...enjoy it ! Wink

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Thanks. I did really enjoy that.

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@litewave,

Can't you choose not to enact on those reasons?
Do something just for the fun of it. Not because there is a given reason.

When I go down on a water slide I don't think of a reason. I just do it. We make choices in our life free will is very real. As a concept and as something physical.

Also aren't we the ones that give reason?

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@litewave,

litewave wrote:

There are only 3 possible ways your action can originate:

1) When you have reasons for your action - then the action is the result of those reasons.

2) When you don't have reasons for your action - then the action is unintentional.

3) Your action can be the result of a combination of 1) and 2).

None of those possibilities allow for free will because you are always compelled to your action and never in control of your action.

The fallacy in your argument is the lack of distinction between "freedom to will" and "Freedom from will."
If the function of the human mind is to produce will, and it functions through the principles of language, i.e. reason, your argument has a galactic hole in it. Specifically you deny the definition of will. Plato did the entire thing, distinction between doing as one wills and as one pleases--Gorgias.

Or are you contending that the definition of a thing means that it is not free to not exist?????

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Now you are confusing an idea as a conceptual construct with an idea's actual contents.

Quote:
An easy one would be an unicorn, which is just an idea

So it is an idea that does not exist because it is just an idea?

Come on... I don't believe you are this stupid.

This time I will not answer you, since my patience for offenses is gone.

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I meant that reading in first hand still imply´s interpretation...I was being sarcastic...

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are saying.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Now you are confusing an idea as a conceptual construct with an idea's actual contents.

Quote:
An easy one would be an unicorn, which is just an idea

So it is an idea that does not exist because it is just an idea?

Come on... I don't believe you are this stupid.

OK, despite your offenses, I recovered my patience (which continues to surprise me). But unfortunately I must call you stupid first, so I can proceed with a feeling that justice was restored. Stupid. So lets proceed.

Falsehoods are the falsity of something (right?), which must be nothing to be false: if it were something, then its falsity would no longer be possible. Hence, falsehoods must refer to nothing. However:

1. Falsehoods are only their meaning.

2. All that falsehoods mean is whatever they refer to.

By which whatever falsehoods refer to is everything they are, so falsehoods are nothing.

1 Reply

@guigus,

It is not offending you to say that I believe you are capable of seing the obvious flaw in the argument you presented.

In fact, I have reason to be offended, as you offer such an absurdity to me, thinking I just might be stupid enough to take it seriously.

In the event that you do not see the obvious flaw in the argument you presented (that the idea unicorn doesn't exist because it is just an idea), I apologize for over-estimating your reasoning capabilities.

1 Reply

@guigus,

Even if falsehoods are only their meaning, meaning is something. If meaning is nothing, then what can be anything?

This is not a matter of desperate arguments. It is a simple matter of what words mean.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

It is not offending you to say that I believe you are capable of seing the obvious flaw in the argument you presented.

It is an offense to call me stupid, stupid.

Cyracuz wrote:

In fact, I have reason to be offended, as you offer such an absurdity to me, thinking I just might be stupid enough to take it seriously.

Fortunately I do not feel offended by someone else's argument. And I certainly know the difference between a philosophical argument and an offense.

Cyracuz wrote:

In the event that you do not see the obvious flaw in the argument you presented (that the idea unicorn doesn't exist because it is just an idea), I apologize for over-estimating your reasoning capabilities.

Sorry, but I never made such an argument. You are not only feeling offended by a philosophical argument, which is already ridiculous, but also by a misunderstood one.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Even if falsehoods are only their meaning, meaning is something. If meaning is nothing, then what can be anything?

This is not a matter of desperate arguments. It is a simple matter of what words mean.

Instead of denying my conclusions, try to show a flaw in my reasoning: conclusions do not come out of nothing.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Even if falsehoods are only their meaning, meaning is something. If meaning is nothing, then what can be anything?

In my argument, it is not meaning in general that is nothing: it is the meaning of a falsehood, which is whatever that falsehood refers to. So that meaning is nothing, since whatever falsehoods refer to must be nothing.

2 Replies

@guigus,

I did show you a flaw in your reasoning.

I asked you to give an example of an idea that does not exist.

You gave the example "a unicorn", saying that it "doesn't exist because it is just an idea..."

So what you are saying is that "The idea doesnt exist because it is just an idea".

So... what? Sand doesn't exist because it is just sand?

Like I said, I don't think you are making a distinction between an idea as a conceptual construct (all ideas are conceptual construct), and a unicorn (an example of such a constuct).

Heres a possible definition of a unicorn:

Unicorn: A mythical creature that resembles a horse with a single horn in it's forehead, pointing straight forward at an upward angle. We have no indications that such a creature has ever existed anywhere but in human imagination.

Pretty good explanation of unicorn, wouldn't you say? A hell of a lot more meaningful than:

Unicorn: a nonexistent.

1 Reply

Proof of nonexistence of free will

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