Even some scientists give lip service to fairy tales.

The difference being?

Boy, I have seen some unadulterated rubbish but that took the cake.
Ever heard of Nero ? NEWSFLASH ! When did he exist ? Who did he blame for the burning of Rome ? Perhaps the early Christians speak to you ? They told you no-one called them Christians then ? You know this how ?

Josephus mentions the "followers of one they call Christos" now if that isnt Christians then you are deluding yourself.

So bloody what ? Perhaps you are not scholarly enough to know this, but abscence of proof is not proof of absence.

Alleged ??? So someone forged it did they Sherlock ? Perhaps a conspiracy ??

Is this the sort of dribble that passes for scholarship where you are ?
"There is no way.." famous last words of the desperate; is that your prayer or opinion ? Josephus was writing for a Roman/Greek audience to explain why the Jews had revolted.

Care to retract your bullshit?

While were at it, to claim that the "gospels" are an historical source is ludicrous. They are riddled with historical bullshit and internal contradictions. The two genealogies in the "gospels" contradict one another, and for either of them to have been a "true" record of the descent of the putative Jesus, the people listed therein would have had to have lived for hundreds of years. The claim about a census during the reign of Caesar Augustus is clearly bullshit--we have a surviving record of the lustrums (not the censii) conducted by Augustus, of which he was himself the author, and none of the dates come close. Apart from that, neither a census nor a lustrum had any purpose other than to count Roman citizens, and your boy Joseph was certainly not a citizen.

Pontius Pilate existed, despite the doubt expressed for more than a thousand years on this subject--we know this because of a monumental inscription found by Jewish archaeologists in 1962. But he was a prefect, not a procurator, an office which had not even been invented in his lifetime. Furthermore, the notion that he could be bullied by Caiaphus is absurd--Pilate appointed the high priest from a short list, so Caiaphus held his position at the pleasure of Pilate. Pilate commanded no Roman troops. From his seat at Caesarea Maritima, he was responsible for the trade routes across the province of Iudaea, and commanded at most 3000 auxiliaries. The nearest Roman legions were under the command of the Legate of Syria at Antioch. Pilate had no authority to execute anyone, or even to try them. If he had wanted to try someone, to have them executed, he would have been obliged to send that person to the Legate of Syria to be tried, and to be executed, if that was the judgment of the Legate.

The notion that the "gospels" have any historical value is absurd.

What is your source for a claim about Nero and "Christians?" Got anything reliable? I doubt it. No one "told" me anything about when Christians were called Christians. However, except for the Tacitus interpolation and the Josephus interpolation, the word does not appear anywhere before the second century. By the way, the source for the bullshit about Nero and the "Christians" is the Tacitus interpolation, a forgery in a copy of Tacitus at the Vatican, which Vatican scholars themselves acknowledge was surely an interpolation, and they've pinpointed the period in which the forgery was perpetrated to the mid-16th century. You don't know **** about these subjects, do you?

The Origen passage is significant because Origen elsewhere is at pains to provide all the evidence he can of the life of the putative Jesus. If the Josephus passage had existed in the lifetime of Origen (third century), you can bet he would have mentioned it. However, no Christian writer mentions such a passage at any time until Eusebius mentions it in the fourth century. In fact, most reputable scholars suspect that Eusebius himself was the author of the interpolation. Ever heard of Eusebius? It seems to me that you don't know jack **** about early church scholars. And yes, Holmes, the evidence is excellent that the Josephus passage is an interpolation--a forgery. It's hardly my fault if you are so pig ignorant on this subject that you didn't know that.

The word you wanted, bright boy, was drivel, not dribble. The drivel, however, is your claims about Josephus.

I have no confidence, however, that you will, from the depths of your obvious ignorance, retract any of the bullshit you are peddling. Hell, you seem to think that the "gospels" are some kind of historical source. I suspect you'll believe just about anything that some more clever than you (which is quite a large number, apparently) claims to be history.

Wanna buy a bridge, Bubba?

From my notes for your enlightenment :
Prefect Pontius Pilate (26-36 CE)
The Praetorian Prefect Aelius Sejanus was very anti-Jewish and in 26 CE selected Pontius Pilate to be Prefect with instructions to destabilise Judaea. Naturally, the level of anti-Roman feeling rose, driven also by Pilates obvious lack of understanding of anything non-Roman. During religious celebrations, Roman troops marched in Jerusalem to keep order without covering their standards that had pagan Gods on them, something the Jews found particularly offensive. Even those who would openly support Rome were embarrassed into silence. The Romans also seized the donations to the Temple under the pretext to finance improvements to Jerusalem's water supply. They wanted to build an aqueduct to augment the water tunnels built by Solomon.
During one of many Jewish protest marches, Pilate ordered Roman soldiers to wear robes and to mix with the protestors. Suddenly brandishing clubs, they beat anyone they could strike, and many people were killed. Simon Magus (codename Lazarus), Judas Iscariot (successor to Judas the Galilean, codename Satan ) and Thaddeus (codename Barabbas) led the Jews when they rioted. Not surprisingly, the revolt failed and everyone dispersed but not before Thaddeus had killed a Roman. The three Zealots lost support within the Apostles and Jonathan Annas (the Apostle, Jacob of Alphaeus) regained power as High Priest, also retaining his position within the Apostles shadow government as father, or overall leader.
The Feast of the Passover - The Last Supper.
During the Feast of the Passover, Jesus came to Qumran. From out of hiding in the nearby caves came Thaddeus, Simon and Judas, - Israel’s Three Most Wanted - for a meeting of the ‘Seasonal Council of the Leaders’. The meeting would only be dangerous for them if the inner divisions were enough for someone to betray the group to the Romans, and that was unthinkable.
But there were inner divisions of some magnitude. The new struggle Antipas faced with Agrippa I was also over who owned the Herod portion of the Qumran money. Agrippa I was currently in favour with Pilate and distinctly disliked Simon, leader of the Magi. Judas, as the chief scribe was in charge of the purse strings and was against Jesus because of his Western ways and his lack of respect for traditional law.
Jesus' supporters organised a parade that they hoped would culminate in a sign that would show heavens favour for Jesus as the Messiah. When the procession ended at the lower part of the buildings in the palace (the same word was used for temple), nothing happened. Moneychangers were busy exchanging the foreign currency that was pouring in from Jews in the outside world in lieu of a sacrifice in the temple. Jesus blamed them for bringing about God’s disfavour. Turning over their tables, he accused them of turning his palace into a ‘den of thieves’. He also speaks out against Antipas as the Herod responsible. If Jesus had not of blamed someone else, his followers might have lost faith and he would have been held to be a false prophet.
Because of the organisation of the villages and previous references in the Bible to ‘thirty pieces of silver’, the village taxes were called ‘thirty pieces of silver’. Judas offered his services to Jonathan Annas as the receiver of the ‘thirty pieces of silver’. This position required someone of considerable education by the standards of the day, and Judas being the Head Scribe was amply qualified. He was no doubt pre-positioning influence for when Jesus would make an attempt to claim the High Priesthood.
March 20 " Friday - the equinox. They held what came to be known as the last supper but to them was called the Agape, or ‘love meal’. These religious meals were heavy with ritual, one of which was for Jesus, as host, to wash the feet of his guests. This was a role that a slave would perform on the master of the house. It was performed by the master of the house on his guests as an act of humility and of servitude to God as humans were made in his likeness. The seating was based on the shadow government of the Twelve Apostles and with space for two guests. Jesus, as shadow King, was in the seat called the Kingdom, Jacob (Jonathan Annas) as shadow High Priest was in the seat called the Power, and their two assistants respectively, Peter and Judas sat in the seats called the Glory. The others present were Simon Magus, Thaddeus, Matthew Annas, Thomas Herod, Philip, Andrew, Bartholomew, John Zebedee and James Zebedee and one place was vacant, that of Antipas Herod.
The first part was the Common Meal, in which the first hour was for common food, the second hour for common drink.
At the end of the common meal, Jesus demonstrated his claim to be High Priest, based on his supporters that were present and that the original David had held that status. Jonathan Annas was, in effect, out voted and very reluctantly yielded his seat, and the sacred part of the meal then took place with Jesus as high priest. ‘The Kingdom, the Power and the Glory are yours’, describes all the functions that Jesus held in the shadow government at this point in the communion. It has since found its way into the Lords prayer.
Then they ate the Sacred Meal, in which the third hour was for sacred food and the fourth hour for sacred drink. At the start of the fourth hour, when Jesus, as host, blessed the wine not everyone drank as some of those present belonged to orders that would not let them drink wine. As Judas belonged to a sect that did not drink, he made his excuses and left to send for Pilate with a request for a pardon for himself and a bribe to sweeten the deal.
The Trial before Caiaphas.
The Westernised members had become stuck with the prediction that the long awaited heavenly intervention that would signal the start of the thousand-year Jewish Empire would occur at midnight. When the heavenly intervention did not take place, Caiaphas and the priests tried Simon and Jesus for being false prophets. Breaches of Jewish law and blasphemies were heard individually. As Jesus or Simon was found guilty, the sentence was carried out before hearing the next offence. Both are taken out and flogged throughout the night, probably receiving each time batches of the traditional sentence of 40 minus 1 lashings.
Peter has the opportunity to stand with Jesus or to deny complicity. Disappointed at the failure of the prophecy, he ‘denied’ Jesus. Jesus looked long and hard at Peter, who felt deeply this quiet rebuke and ‘wept bitterly’.
Jonathan Annas resented Jesus trying to take the shadow High Priesthood off him, so he mocks Jesus by putting him in his robe. Agrippa I, as a Herod, resented Jesus as a rival for the Kingship, especially as Jesus came from the ancient lineage of David, so he mocks Jesus by putting on him a crown made of the very large thorns that grow in the area. This crown of thorns was designed to be a sign of promoting self-discipline and rejecting worldly pleasure, but if care was not taken when placing it on, it could very thoroughly reject worldly pleasure. They did not take any care.
The Trial before Pilate.
Having been informed by Judas that the troublemakers would be at Qumran, Pilate arrived at 6am and demanded to interview the three. Jesus was substituted for Judas and with Simon and Thaddeus, was taken to Pilate.
Antipas wanted to rescue Simon as they both had Agrippa I as a common enemy, but was unsuccessful. Pilate found Simon guilty of murdering a Roman and conspiring against the People and Senate of Rome. The sentence would be death by crucifixion.
Antipas wanted to also rescue Thaddeus, because he was Antipas' spiritual adviser and was now an old man. Judas had bribed Pilate with money and with the offer of the whereabouts of the troublemakers. Pilate now knew where the troublemakers were so it was down to who could offer the most money. Antipas rescued Thaddeus by offering a higher bribe than Judas. Pilate then released Thaddeus and Judas was tried in his place. Jonathan Annas decided distance was the better part of valour and fired Judas, in effect taking back his ‘thirty pieces of silver’. Judas, during his trial, ‘hung himself’ by contradictions and accidental admissions during his testimony. Judas was also found guilty and would be executed by crucifixion.
This was not lost on Jesus who maintained silence throughout his trial. Pilate’s conscience was troubling him over Jesus. Pilate found it difficult to accept that Jesus was guilty of treason. To a Roman, killing peasants was nothing, but to falsely trial a king and condemn him to death just reeked of Greek tragedy and Roman morality made it difficult to kill an important person if it wasn’t deserved. Jesus further confused Pilate by his very noble behaviour and acceptance of death. Repeatedly Pilate asked the priests if they wanted Jesus killed, arguing that he has done no wrong but they insist he is to be killed. Antipas is told of Jesus’ comments after turning over the money tables and is persuaded by Jacob to talk to Pilate. Antipas also insisted on being rid of Jesus.
9 am. Pilate, seeing no way out and sensing no further bribes were in the offering, agreed. As the money was funds for the mission, Pilate had to become a member to accept the bribe. This meant baptism, to receive the lowest form of which Pilate had to wash his hands.
Simon and Judas were two of the original troublemakers, but Thaddeus was the one who had actually killed a Roman and wasn’t even facing a charge. Carrying their own horizontal part of a cross, the three convicts were taken to the garden area where the Essenes had their own fruit trees and vegy patch. They were then nailed to the horizontal and it was hauled up the tree and fastened. Simon was placed on the centre cross and Judas, as Simon's second, was in the second most important spot on the eastern cross and Jesus was on the western cross in the least important position . This is clearly stated in the Gospels, but many Christians have changed it to promote Jesus. I wouldn’t have thought it necessary, but anyway…

The word I wanted, bubba, was dribble. Your ego and esp do not extend that far.

This is the opinion of a desperate fool who must believe...

Expressed by fools like you. Where are they now ?

If you get any more of a sneer up you will poke your eye out with your lip.

See. It is all just a matter of time.

See. It is all just a matter of time.
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LOL..................to the sun burn out more then likely waiting for the second coming.

Never heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls hey Bubba ?? Well, they are a very old parchment, see, and they agreed rather closely with previous versions of the Old Testament...but that is impossible, isnt it ?

Are you normally this stupid or is tonight a bad night ? You don't know **** about these subjects, do you?

Hell, you seem to think that you are some kind of historical source.

Never heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls hey Bubba ?? Well, they are a very old parchment, see, and they agreed rather closely with previous versions of the Old Testament...but that is impossible, isnt it ?
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What does the dead sea scroll have anything to do with anything? We all agree there were a Jewish Jesus cult similar to many other such cults in the history of the human race.

I think that you should get a synopsis of the Dead Sea scrolls. They have many substantive differences among them and the Canon s elected "in" by the church.

Also, there were several scrolls at the cave sites that were made of copper "foil".

You will probably never know

Now THAT was funny. If you only knew.

You will probably never know
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Yes I am not planing on being around in this universe for the billions of years it will take for the sun to burn out.

It will probably take that long before you evolve enough to figure out the quote feature.

:

Bills a self proclaimed genius doncha know?lol:

It will probably take that long before you evolve enough to figure out the quote feature.
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And using the build in quote feature or not have what connection to this thread?