Even some scientists give lip service to fairy tales.

@Ionus,

Islam is actually one with a transcendental god and Judaisms god was originally personal and now has mellowed into a transcendental state after he had the kid.

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@farmerman,

To me they are a personal God because you can ask for and may recieve direct help.

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@Ionus,

Well, we disagree that Judaism (today) and Islam have such a relationship. The CAtholic Church seems to be turning itself into a transcendent god outfit.

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@farmerman,

I use one criteria to determine if it is a personal God or not...can you say a prayer and it may be answered. If it can, than that God is personal rather than one that is abstractedly behind the universe and everything and doesnt care what happens to the individual. There doesnt seem to be a middle ground. There is either a chance your prayer will be heard or not.

I think the Catholic Church is busy adapting itself to not clash with science. I dont think this makes their God not a personal one.

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A bunch of Scientists came to the door the other day, with their tracts and their attempts to persuade me to join their religion, but the small doggies were goin' nuts, barkin' and offerin' to rip their throats out, so i told them to be gone or i'd loose the hounds . . .

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@Ionus,

Find a copy of "Finding Darwin's God" by Ken Miller, a noted US Biologist whose been in the evo/Creatio spotlight. Hes a practicing Catholic whose own belief is of a transcendental god. (Hes not held in real high esteem by his local Archbishop of Providence RI Diocese.

OK, Ill buy your definition , It matters little about the concepts anyway. We as a civilization are still attempting to find a meaningful role for a god as we slowly decipher his bag of tricks.

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@Setanta,

Were they Orthodox ENtanglement Physicists?

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@farmerman,

Those guys are as annoying as Hell, and if you don't have dogs, you just can't get rid of 'em . . .

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@Setanta,

You can get rid of 'em without dogs. I just tell them, very politely, thank you for stopping by but I'm a Budhist. Don't know how well this would work in Canada, but here in Hawaii, the universal reaction is, oh, I see, we respect that, have a nice day.

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@farmerman,

I have noted through the years that when most catholics leave the church it is because they have decided that God is not a personal god. It is either change to a universal god or accept the convoluted theory we are being tested by a personal god who is all loving but doesnt create pain, just the mechanisms by which we suffer (?????) Strange stuff....

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@Ionus,

I was under the tutilage of the SOciety of Jesus. MAny of this heretical society had similar feelings about their theology.

Of course, the CAtholics still owe so much to Timothy that I had never agreed with Ken Millers observations. I just rejected the whole ball of theology.

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@farmerman,

I thought Christianity, and the Catholics in particular, owed far more to Paul, a somewhat misshapen Jewish homosexual. We have far more of his words surviving than of Jesus.

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@Ionus,

Every good Catholic child is inculcated with the "Summa Theologica" and PAuls letters, but throughout, Ive always been reminded that these words of liturgy come from Timmy.
ANYWAY, Timmy ! and II are actually Pauls letters)

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@Ionus,

think the Catholic Church is busy adapting itself to not clash with science. I dont think this makes their God not a personal one.
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A god that interfere with the working of the universe in any way or in any manner would indeed clash with science as one proven supernatural event in the history of the universe would destroy the very foundation of science.

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@BillRM,

weve been discussing the concepts of a transcendental god versus a personal one. WHy dont you wait to add something when you dont make a fool of yourself, hard as that may be.

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@farmerman,

add something when you dont make a fool of yourself, hard as that may be.
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I love you to and your diamond hard head....................

Now all we need is a discussion on how many angels can dance on the top of your pointed head.

If past history is a guide your number will be high by over a hundred percent.

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@BillRM,

I often have to come down to your level so that you can easily understand.

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@farmerman,

Yes, I was acknowledging your comment on Timothy and expanding it to all of Paul. Perhaps I was too subtle. Argueably the most thought provoking from a theological point of view is Romans.

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@BillRM,

I'm not so sure. Many supernatural events have gone on to become science. I assume you mean something like a miracle, in which case the miracle could remain a theory, as it is not demonstrable or repeatable. There are many things that are considered science right now that have never been proven; it is simply that the theory most commonly held by scientists is being taught as fact.

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@Ionus,

A supernatural event is define as some event outside the laws of the universe both known and unknown such as an interfering god who by waving his hands bypass those laws to grant a wish to a human or to stop the sun in it tracks in order to aid his side in a conflict or to bring the rotting body of a long death person back to life.

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Even some scientists give lip service to fairy tales.

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