4
   

Even some scientists give lip service to fairy tales.

 
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 02:49 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

idea that religious people cannot be free thinkers or have logical thinking?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the very nature of religious people they can not question their faith by the very meaning of faith so any facts or scientific theorem that tend to call in question their believe systems must blindly be rejected.

See evolution as a fine example of this.



It is very evident that you know nothing, or at least very little, about religion or religious people. You are also probably blind to the fact that there is absolutely no reason that a religious person must reject evolution out of hand.

Then again, I don't know exactly what you refer to when you say religious people. You seem to lump everybody into the same slot.

Fortunately, everybody is not as narrow minded or blinded by facts as you are.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 03:16 pm
@Intrepid,
You are also probably blind to the fact that there is absolutely no reason that a religious person must reject evolution out of hand.

Then again, I don't know exactly what you refer to when you say religious people. You seem to lump everybody into the same slot.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Depend on how you wish to define a religious person with special reference to good Christians as in 80 percents of my fellow citizens. So it you wish to define a religious person so broadly that is loss all it normal meaning such as believing in a personal god be my guest.

Einstein was not a religion person in any common meaning of that term for example as Einstein did not for a second believe in a personal god of any kind to him the term god was how the universe work and it was far beyond our ability to comprehend it working except in a small part.

See below



http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4044/is_200507/ai_n15328838/


This is known as "cosmic religion," which was the core of Einstein's philosophy of religion (127), to which he remained committed throughout his adult life (119, 121-122). Essentially he saw God in and through all of nature, thus characterizing religion as "confidence in the rationality of nature as it is accessible to human reason" (120).

As it stands, however, this is not the view of Christian, Jewish, and Islamic religions. More specifically, Einstein disavowed belief in a personal God and the idea that God rewards and punishes persons for their behavior. God, for Einstein, is neither personal nor has a will and feeling (73, 141), a view that caused a tremendous stir when he read his provocative essay "Science and Religion" at the Conference on Science, Philosophy, and Religion at New York City's Union Theological Seminary in September 1940. No one "anticipated the serious controversies and harsh acrimonies that this essay would evoke" (92). Although Einstein was clear that science and religion have distinct functions and differences, he was also convinced that the truly scientific person seeks only truth and understanding. But this spirit, he maintained, "springs from the sphere of religion....I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" (94). Had Einstein ended his essay on this note all would have been well. But he went further, declaring that the reason for the conflict between science and religion during that period had much to do with the concept of a personal God (94-95), a view he had already expressed more fully in "What I Believe." Unfortunately, most attendees misinterpreted Einstein to mean that he did not believe in God, and thus was an atheist.

There is no question that Einstein had no use for religious institutions (unless they were engaged in the serious and all-important task of religious education-not indoctrination-of persons). Although the criticisms were numerous and acrimonious, we learn that Einstein always protested against being accused of atheism (150), but he did not believe in the God of his critics. Einstein resented the fact that atheists frequently quoted him in support of their atheism. In this regard he said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for support of such views" (97).

We learn from Jammer's book that along with his amazing scientific genius Einstein was deeply religious and convinced that a "subtle, intangible and inexplicable" reality lay behind all phenomenal existence. In addition, like growing numbers of today's physicists, astronomers, and other scientists, Einstein did not hesitate to write about religion-both as a faith and in relation to science. His rejection of a personal God elicited comments both from religionists who thought little about matters of faith as well as those who did, such as Rabindranath Tagore and Paul Tillich (70-72, 107-113).

1 2 3 4 Next
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 03:44 pm
@BillRM,
http://able2know.org/topic/137993-1

It seems to me, Bill, that you're taking an awfully narrow view of "religious" and "god" or "higher power."

But farmerman is right, of course. All you're trying to do here is get carried away with one of your seasonal rants. Have a happy holiday anyway, you friggin' fraud.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 03:58 pm
@Merry Andrew,
t seems to me, Bill, that you're taking an awfully narrow view of "religious" and "god" or "higher power."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you take the view of religion that is so broad that even atheists like myself can be consider religious you lost all the meaning of the word religious.

A religious person in my meaning is someone who believe in some form of a personal god/intelligent behind the universe.

I you wish to go beyond that point then to me you are both being highly silly and dishonest.
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 04:49 pm
@Intrepid,
Ho-hum.

Your lack of knowledge as per both Galileo and Darwin is pitiful at best. Let alone the remaining history of christian indoctrinated fear & ignorance of which you are a clearly a proponent.
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 04:59 pm
@Chumly,
Chumly wrote:

Ho-hum.

Your lack of knowledge as per both Galileo and Darwin is pitiful at best. Let alone the remaining history of christian indoctrinated fear & ignorance of which you are a clearly a proponent.


You could at least try to know what you are talking about and responding to. I made absolutely NO mention of either Galileo or Darwin.

In your haste to make snide remarks to someone you don't agree with, you make a fool of yourself. That is what is pitiful.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 05:55 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
A religious person in my meaning is someone who believe in some form of a personal god/intelligent behind the universe.
You do not have to believe in a personal God or a intelligent design to be religious. You simply have to believe in a God.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 06:08 pm
@Ionus,
You do not have to believe in a personal God or a intelligent design to be re gious. You simply have to believe in a God.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is god then just a word without any meaning at all? Define god then if not some form of intelligent behind the universe. An all powerful watcher perhaps that had nothing to do with creating or starting the universe?

I am an outright atheist and it seem that you people are reaching so far as to cover even little old me.

You can define something so broadly that it indeed loss all meaning and I am under the impression that you people are doing just that.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 06:26 pm
@BillRM,
You have missed the point. God is defined by the believer, and I dont believe you are a God.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 06:44 pm
@Ionus,
MNy religions about the world believe in a transcendent,god. Only a few believe this "personal God " mantra and these( The Evangelical Christians) dont define human spirituality or represent more than a few percentage points of the world.
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 08:28 pm
@Intrepid,
Unsurprising in the extreme that your claims are empty, after all your strong suit is belief in ghosts.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 08:46 pm
@Chumly,
You, as a troll, are not worthy of further comment. You make yourself look foolish enough without me having to comment beyond this post

Ciao.

oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 08:57 pm
@BillRM,
a recent poll revealed that more gods are scientists these days than in the past

although the data is yet to be adjusted for skewness and kurtosis ( third and fourth moments of the probability generating function)

caused by those gods which art eternal and continue to form part of ongoing cohorts
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 09:13 pm
@farmerman,
What is your meaning when you say a personal god or a transcendent god ?
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 09:59 pm
@oolongteasup,
Good to know, oolong. I must have missed that survey poll.
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 12:58 am
@Intrepid,
Tell me about your logicality and rationality as it relates to your belief in resurrected corpses.

Tell me about your logicality and rationality as it relates to your invisible friend in the sky controlling locusts.
0 Replies
 
oolongteasup
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 01:27 am
@Merry Andrew,
good be with you gaedrian
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:34 am
@Ionus,
A pwrsonal god is the aspect of the gods divinity all over the material world. The god is related to as a "person". And the followers follow all his adventues and this god enters into agreements (remember covenants?) and contracts with his people.
A transcendental god is one that is way beyond the entire universe and its day to day.

Im not gonna get any of the links since you asked me "What do I think..." Its a working def that I find acceptble since I dont maintain any notes from my old religion days.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 05:53 am
@farmerman,
No, I was happy with that. I dont ask people for references. Usually. When you say "Only a few believe this 'personal God' " I would have said all the religions of the desert, Judaism, Christianity and Islam believe in a personal God. Certainly too many to be called a few.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Nov, 2009 06:10 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

No, I was happy with that. I dont ask people for references. Usually. When you say "Only a few believe this 'personal God' " I would have said all the religions of the desert, Judaism, Christianity and Islam believe in a personal God. Certainly too many to be called a few.


doesn't sound very personal to me

to quote a great man (the abominable snowman from loony tunes)

"Just what I always wanted. My own little bunny rabbit (personal god). I will name him George, and I will hug him and pet him and squeeze him...

...and pat him and pet him and...

...and rub him and caress him and... "
0 Replies
 
 

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