Would you tell on your kid's friends

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Wow. This is getting a little crazy.

I really see both of your points. Porn can be harmfull, really harmful. One kid has been in trouble for this before.

But we are talking about three boys (ages 8-10) who looked up two porn sites, didn't go beyond the front page, and spent a total of no more than 15 minutes on both sites combinded.

Not that they didn't do wrong. But really, if it were any bigger than that Mo would have gotten into real trouble. I don't think this calls for a severe punishment.

And David has a point too. What if I saw this kid a few days later and he had a black eye (note: I've never seen a bruise on him but he has told Mo that "my dad/mom whipped the tar out of me")? I would know that it was my having told that led to such physical punishment.

And while I don't think you can tell other people how to discipline their own children, knowing that I had played a part in such abuse is something that I would have to live with.

I don't want that on my head.

The only way to protect yourself and the 2 boys
is to mind your own business and do not cause (violent) trouble.

(Do unto others as u woud have them do unto u.)

David

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

This is a job for ...
THE ETHICIST!

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/02/magazine/randy_headshot.190.jpg

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/features/magazine/columns/the_ethicist/index.html?scp=1-spot&sq=the%20ethicist&st=cse
Seriously... Boomerang?! Send this into Randy Cohen, he's the best! He'll know what to do!

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

(Do unto others as u woud have them do unto u.)

Interesting point.

boomer, if Mo was at someone else's house and did something the other parents had asked him not to do - and that you had told him not to do - would you want them to let you know? would you prefer they handle his discipline for the matter in the way they see fit?

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I think the big issue here is the threat of violence, no?

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I suppose I suggested severe punishment by asking if you would tell on your kid's friends
if you thought the kid would get hit.

I consider hitting severe punishment.

In addition to unknown physical somatic disruptions
there is also the EMOTIONAL injury, which might pervert the victim 's mind into replicating the abuse.

For instance, the radio personality Don Imus told of his detesting
his drunken father who beat him (in childhood). He drank scotch.

Imus said that he swore that he 'd never drink,
and that he 'd especially not drink scotch.
He became an alcoholic and his drink of choice was scotch.
His subconscious mind was perverted by the experience into replicating itself.

The moral of the story is:
if u did rat them out, not only might u get them beaten to an unknown degree,
but also their children, yet unborn. Maybe some day u will meet them.

David

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
(Do unto others as u woud have them do unto u.)

Interesting point.

boomer, if Mo was at someone else's house and did something
the other parents had asked him not to do - and that you had told
him not to do - would you want them to let you know? would you
prefer they handle his discipline for the matter in the way they see fit?

If Boomer rats them out, she will thereby
put a weapon into the hands of the violent parents
KNOWING that the weapon will be used in anger,
but not knowing the degree of injury that will result, neither physically nor mentally.

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@littlek,

I think there are a bunch of different issues which is why the conversation is kind of all over the place!

1.) How bad is it for 8 and 10 yr olds to hack into a computer?

2.) How bad is it for 8 and 10 yr olds to look at pornography (naked women and oral sex)?

3.) How likely is it that the kids would actually be punished with spanking? (This one has gotten short shrift I think -- it's not definite that they would get hit if boomer tells the parents. That can't be a premise -- it's only "might.")

4.) Is the possibility of spanking enough to not tell the parents?

5.) Where is the line when it comes to deciding whether to tell parents about their kids' transgressions? (That was one aspect of my thread -- kids often mess up in various ways, this was the first time it seemed serious enough that I felt I had to say something.)

There are more elements too but I'll stop there.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

What if I saw this kid a few days later and he had a black eye (note: I've never seen a bruise on him but he has told Mo that "my dad/mom whipped the tar out of me")? I would know that it was my having told that led to such physical punishment.

Do you think this kid is truthful about having the "tar" whipped out of him? don't you think you'd have seen some physical evidence of it at some point since you've known the boys?

Given what the kid seems capable of - in terms of Mrs. Cleavering you - I'd be putting more thought into what other manipulation and creative talking he's capable of.

If he did appear with a black eye, it is unlikely you'd ever know the truth about whether your speaking to the parents resulted in it.

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@ehBeth,

If someone is "whipping the tar" out of these kids, they need to be reported to CPS.

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@OmSigDAVID,

For example, I think this is over the top in terms of the information we have.

I am anti-spanking, for a lot of reasons -- I just got into a big discussion about that with Robert. I absolutely don't condone spanking.

However, I also know a lot of people who were spanked and turned out just fine. The possibility of a child being spanked is not enough for me to keep important information from the child's parents -- that's exactly what happened in my situation. (And, again, I don't know if she was in fact spanked.)

If there is a situation at that home that goes beyond spanking, then that's another kettle of fish and kind of beyond the specifics of this question. Then it gets into whether child protective services should be called, that sort of thing.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

If Boomer rats them out, she will thereby
put a weapon into the hands of the violent parents

none of us know that. You're indulging your fearful self again.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

"Even if they say they're police" might just be from stranger danger education ya know.

But, if the other little fella is breaking passwords, he may well have been doing this at home, and getting into stuff.

Despite what ebrown is saying, porn CAN be traumatising for kids........sounds as though you and Mo have dealt with it well.

Of course, the kids I see are the ones who have been traumatised....I don't see the munchkins who took it in their stride.

As for being the typical things parents say?

Most of the parents I see with kids who ARE traumatised by seeing porn have been pretty much speechless, and have had no idea what to say, or have just yelled at them, making it worse.

This is likely a major mediating factor, of course, in how well they deal with it! That and having had a decent sex education.

Or, the kids have brooded on it because they didn't dare tell adults what they saw, for fear of being punished and seen as bad kids, until they did something which made people ask questions.

Do you think you CAN talk these parents into responding sensibly?

I really get your dilemma and it's an awful one.

What more does your husband know about the family, do you think, that makes him so confident that NOT telling is the right thing?

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

I think there are a bunch of different issues which is why the conversation is kind of all over the place!

3.) How likely is it that the kids would actually be punished with spanking?
(This one has gotten short shrift I think -- it's not definite
that they would get hit if boomer tells the parents.

That can't be a premise -- it's only "might.")[ ?? ]

By that reasoning,
its OK to play Russian Roulette, because the odds are 5:1
that u will not blast your brains out. Its only "might" that u will shoot a hole thru your head.

I don 't think so.

1 Reply

@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

For example, I think this is over the top in terms of the information we have.

You mean the idea that informing the parents of a single infraction can lead to the emotional crippling of all of this kid's offspring, and every generation thereafter, is over the top?

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

By that reasoning,
its OK to play Russian Roulette, because the odds are 5:1
that u will not blast your brains out. Its only "might" that u will shoot a hole thru your head.

I don 't think so.

By that reasoning, one should never drive, because there's always a non-zero chance of getting into an accident.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

If ...

the "if" to a lot of this, is what caused me to refer to boomer as having been Mrs. Cleavered.

It reads like Mo's got a better sense of this than she does - he knew what was done was wrong, and that an adult needed to be told.

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@ehBeth,

Which is why I wrote "if".

If they're not being whupped, then she should tell the parents. If they are being whupped, then they need to be reported.

The difficulty, of course, is knowing which is the case.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

I think there are a bunch of different issues which is why the conversation is kind of all over the place!

1.) How bad is it for 8 and 10 yr olds to hack into a computer?

2.) How bad is it for 8 and 10 yr olds to look at pornography (naked women and oral sex)?

3.) How likely is it that the kids would actually be punished with spanking? (This one has gotten short shrift I think -- it's not definite that they would get hit if boomer tells the parents. That can't be a premise -- it's only "might.")

4.) Is the possibility of spanking enough to not tell the parents?

5.) Where is the line when it comes to deciding whether to tell parents about their kids' transgressions? (That was one aspect of my thread -- kids often mess up in various ways, this was the first time it seemed serious enough that I felt I had to say something.)

There are more elements too but I'll stop there.

1. Reasonably bad, but most kids will likely give it a try. You'd hope they'd stop after being told off. Seems like Other Kid is rather experienced with it. A good reason to tell his parents, I'd have thought.

2. It's a tad early, but within the normal curiosity range to have a go.

Of course, any kid will seek out and look at anything left within their access.

Whether it is harmful or not varies from kid to kid. It CAN be...and most kids will have a heap of questions when they see things that seem really yucky to most of them (like sucking penises...or a lot of kids I have seen find just the dumb looks and positions women are photographed in to look "sexy" quite distressing, just as two examples. If they happen upon films of sex, lots of them think the adults are hurting each other, depending upon their sex education.)

It's concerning Other Kid has been told off already for looking.

3. Dunno. But repeated hitting (as I said, I think "spanking" is a spineless weasel word which attempts to make repeated hitting of kids sound less like what it is) would be a truly dumb way of dealing with this. However, unless it becomes unlawful hitting, I don't think it is a reason not to tell parents stuff.

4. I don't THINK so.

5. I guess the only answer to this is that it's subjective...but I guess a rough indicator would be if you feel you need to discuss the behaviour at length with others, if YOU would want to know if your kid did it, if you'd feel bad if the other parents heard about it not from you.

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@dlowan,

Quote:

Despite what ebrown is saying, porn CAN be traumatising for kids........sounds as though you and Mo have dealt with it well.

Of course, the kids I see are the ones who have been traumatised....I don't see the munchkins who took it in their stride.

Let me moderate my position a little bit. I am skeptical that porn is traumatizing for kids who are seeking it out. I think there is a big difference between that, and kids who have it foisted on them (or even stumble upon it). Of course, the issue of peer pressure complicates my position a bit. But, the fact that these kids were looking for it makes me less worried.

My beliefs on this topic are based on my own experiences and my informed understanding of what is a normal occurrence in my culture.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
If Boomer rats them out, she will thereby
put a weapon into the hands of the violent parents

none of us know that. You're indulging your fearful self again.

The victim HIMSELF has complained of it.
If that were untrue, then his brother might reveal the truth.

P.S.:
It is incorrect to describe me as being "fearful".
That is not the fact.

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Would you tell on your kid's friends

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