16
   

Would you tell on your kid's friends

 
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 09:29 am
@chai2,
oh...the porn was quite a bit more explicit.
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 09:31 am
The first time I saw porn, I was in grade two. My friend Brian and I were walking down the alley when we found a box full of magazines. We decided to burn them, creatively... We made volcanoes in the sand box. His mom found us later with a huge pile of burnt Playboys. She wasn't mad that we'd played with fire, no...She was mad about the magazines, neither Brian or I understood what was in them, we just saw them as good burning material. She drove me home, told my dad to spank me and watched the beating.
I hated her more than you can imagine.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 09:40 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

oh...the porn was quite a bit more explicit.


I don't think so. You have to pay with a credit card for porn, don't you?

ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 09:43 am
I think you all are grossly overreacting over porn. I absolutely would not tell the parents. Sure, I would I would lock down my computer and express my displeasure.

But come on! There is absolutely nothing particularly troubling or abnormal about the behavior of these kids.

As other people have pointed out... there is nothing new here. When I was a kid, I was caught trying to sneak an adult magazine out of an auto mechanics shop (back in those days, that was where they were kept). I was punished and got the talk.

When we were caught, we stopped for a few months... but curiosity and hormones are part of adolescents. Later we would stay over at the kids house to watch the one cable channel that was in the neighborhood.

I strongly with Dlowans claim that "not stopping when parents tell them to stop" is a problem.

The problem is if adults are involved, pushing things on the kids or manipulating them... that is a big problem. In this case it is a safety issue and I would certainly pull in the parents (and whatever authorities I could).

But kids seeking out adult material on their own initiative out of curiosity and excitement.

There is no need to overreact here. Lock down your computer. Lecture if you must (but understand that lecturing only goes so far). But for heaven's sake, this is a pretty commonplace event in the childhood of most of us.

sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 09:48 am
Just saw this...

Not sure if you saw my thread a while back about "everytime I think I have the parenting thing figured out, something else comes up", but it dealt with just this dilemma. One of sozlet's friends did something and said that if I told her parents, she would be spanked, and she was really upset about it.

It came down to the fact that if sozlet had done that at a friend's house, I would want to know about it. I told the parents. It ended up fine -- sozlet and this girl are still friends, the girl and I get along fine, etc. I don't know for sure if she was spanked or not.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  5  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 09:52 am
@ebrown p,
I think porn is really the secondary issue here, with the primary issue being hacking into someone's computer -- against explicit instructions -- to get at the porn. That ain't cool.
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 09:57 am
@sozobe,
Quote:
I think porn is really the secondary issue here, with the primary issue being hacking into someone's computer -- against explicit instructions -- to get at the porn. That ain't cool.


Yeah, you are right.

I still warn against overreacting. And... the logical consequence is being physically banned from using the computer.

My main point is that this behavior, while it is uncool (and merits consequences), is not particularly troubling or surprising.


0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 10:46 am
@JPB,
I agree with it depends on what it is. If it is normal child misbehaving crap probably not, if it is something a bit more, I would.

Unless it is more of case of actual abuse, then it is up to the parents how they discpline. I wouldn't want some else telling me how I should discpline.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 10:48 am
@boomerang,
I do think this is a safety issue so I would tell them. I put it more like you know kids, but I want you to know so you can talk with him about internet use. And also to save your own a$$ if the kid fesses up and/or it leaks out that you allow them to view porno on your computer.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 10:55 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
I think you all are grossly overreacting over porn.

The problem is that kids on the Internet can get exposed to a lot more stuff than we could sneaking a Playboy.

Kids can get really messed up seeing sexually explicit stuff, and act out what they see, even if (or perhaps especially if) they don't understand what they saw. Dlowan's seen it professionally, and commented on it here. My wife's seen it professionally. Don't underestimate the effects.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 11:03 am
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

chai2 wrote:

oh...the porn was quite a bit more explicit.


I don't think so. You have to pay with a credit card for porn, don't you?




I was talking about the porn I saw when I was 8 or 9 years old. I didn't have a credit card then.

and no, there's plenty of free, very explicit pornography on the internet.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 11:16 am
So much good advice from so many different perspectives. Thank you all. I wanted to get Mo off to school before jumping back into this thread.

I admit, covering my ass has come to mind. In my imagination the boys are at school boasting about their "trick" and word gets around and things get really messy. Of course, that can happen even if I don't tell the other parents.

In my defense I'll say that computer security has never been an issue at home. My computer has the internet and photoshop. Mo really isn't interested in the computer except every once in a while -- to watch shark videos and to play a certain Risk-like game.

When I became aware that there might be problems I did what I thought needed to be done to prevent further violations.

And, Mr. B. is firmly in the "don't tell" category. I think he might know more about the home situation than I do.

These aren't bad kids. This is not a "bad" family but I do know that they are under a considerable amount of stress -- that's one of the reasons the boys spend so much time here.

My previous experience with "telling" on them was really weird. Their mom figured out something had happened and called me about it. What had happened is that the boys were grilling Mo about his "real" family and why they didn't want him.

Mo got very upset and I took the boys home.

Their mom hit the roof when she found out and I really had to talk her down by explaining that I was glad the topic had come up between Mo and his friends instead of Mo and someone not his friend -- that it gave me and Mo an opportunity to discuss how to handle such things in the future.

More to come.....
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 11:32 am
It sounds like the professional opinion is that I do need to tell.

Now I need to figure out how and when to do it.

Mo has already told his friends that they're busted. I sent Mo off to school today with the instructions to tell his friends they needed to apologize to me before they would be allowed to come back over to the house.

I suppose I could use that to frame a conversation with their mom and ask her to let me handle things from this end -- obviously I was lax in my supervision of the boys and I take responsibility for that so maybe that will help diffuse the situation.

Mo and me and Mr. B have an open and (what I think is healthy) dialogue about sex and sexuality. Mo knows all the facts but I know that knowing the facts doesn't always satisfy one's curiosity. They did not access any hard core porn, some naked girls and a photo of a oral sex -- which is the one that raised Mo's confession and questions.

0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 11:33 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Kids can get really messed up seeing sexually explicit stuff, and act out what they see, even if (or perhaps especially if) they don't understand what they saw. Dlowan's seen it professionally, and commented on it here. My wife's seen it professionally. Don't underestimate the effects.


I don't buy it. This is another example of overreacting to exaggerated risk.

The fact is, kids on the internet is a fact of life. Kids seeking out and finding explicit material is a fact of life. I am not sure the difference the internet makes is even as great as you make it out to be; many kids in my generation were exposed to more than Playboy-- stag films were certainly not unheard of to teens going back to the 50s.

Data is not the plural of anectdote. Sure there are kids who are messed up who have been exposed to explicit material on the internet. This is not evidence that the internet poses any kind of special risk in a statistically significant way. (I am not saying there are no risks in childhood... I am saying that the internet does not significantly affect these risks).

Every generation goes through the same process of some adults obsessing about how modern life will hurt children. Children continue (for the most part) to grow into normal healthy adults with no problem except obsessive worry for their own children.



boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 11:51 am
@dlowan,
Quote:
I'd be fascinated to know how you talked to Mo about what he'd seen, by the way!!!


We had just walked the guys home -- about 5 blocks and we were walking back -- walking, always a good time for talking -- when Mo told me that N. had figured out the password for my computer and that he (N) had wanted to "look at pictures of boys and girls together". He told me that they came across a photo of a girl with a boy's penis in her mouth and he wanted to know what the heck that was all about.

I told him that when two grown ups decide they want to do something that they try all kinds of things and that's okay as long as they both agree to it. That where it starts to get kind of weird is when they take pictures of it and put in on the internet for everyone to see. That sex is normal and healthy when it's with someone you care about but that when you put it out there for everyone to see that it's really all about money and not about love -- that they pay people to take those photos. That those photos are not meant for kids. That it can be confusing.

Probably the typical stuff parents say when confronted with this stuff.

We talked a lot about internet safety. About how people might pretend to be your friend. About how you should never ever tell anyone where you live or give out your phone number -- even if they say they're the police* (he asked about this specifically).

It's this police thing that makes me concerned about the safety issue. The fact that Mo asked about this makes me wonder if somehow these other boys have chatted with someone who tried to get information about them, maybe by claiming to be the police.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:21 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

if you knew their parents might hit them for what they did?

I'm not talking about a beating but you know.... like spanking... or some kind
of discipline that you would not do to your own child?

Or do you think that they'd have a right to know what their kids did anyway?


Parents don 't have the right to know.

If thay DID have the right to know,
then u 'd be violating their rights,
if u refused to take the time and trouble to spy for them.

U are not an unpaid police officer, nor a spy against your will.



David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:49 pm
@dadpad,
dadpad wrote:

One sentence jumped out at me.
Quote:
I know one of the friends in question had been caught looking at this stuff
at home and was "beaten" for it.

Quote:
If he's a second time offender there is a problem and I think his parents need to know,
but the parents need to know their method of dicipline has not worked
and some suggestions could be offered as to diciplineary methods.
Are u crazy??
U want them to keep beating him until he loses interest in sex ????

If anyone tries to interfere in family relations (after ratting out the boy)
she will be told by the offending parents that thay do not take orders
on how to rear their son, before the next attack on him begins.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:51 pm
@ebrown p,
http://www.cief.ca/research_reports/harm.htm

Quote:
This STUDY was provoked by recent news reports of children engaged in sexually inappropriate behaviour, resulting arguably from viewing pornography. The first was a late-2003 news report from a Canberra, Australia hospital whose child-at-risk assessment unit documented a dramatic increase in the number of children engaged in "sexually abusive behaviour." In the mid-1990s the unit saw 2-3 cases a year. By 2000, that had risen to 28, and by late 2003 the unit had more than 70 cases. The hospital's unit manager Annabel Wyndham commented, ""We think this is a new thing of the modern world, because of access to the Net and - to be truthful - combined with some pretty terrible parenting."1

A March news story much closer to home covered the story of several unrelated police investigations of the sexual assault of children by other children in the Hamilton, Ontario-area. All of the victims were under the age of 12 and the oldest perpetrator was 13. In each of the cases, the perpetrators disclosed they were imitating behaviour they had seen portrayed on pornographic cable television channels and on the Internet.2

...

Some Examples of Studies:

* A 1987 study found that women who were battered, or subject to sexual aggression or humiliation, had partners who viewed significantly more pornography than those of a control group drawn from a mature university population. 3
* A 1995 meta-analysis found that violent pornography might reinforce aggressive behavior and negative attitudes toward women.4
* A US study of teenagers exposed to "Hard core" pornography, "Two-thirds of the males and 40% of the females reported wanting to try out some of the behaviors they had witnessed. And, 31% of males and 18% of the females admitted doing some of the things sexually they had seen in the pornography within a few days after exposure."5
* A 1987 "panel of clinicians and researchers concluded that pornography does stimulate attitudes and behavior that lead to gravely negative consequences for individuals and for society, and that these outcomes impair the mental, emotional, and physical health of children and adults."6
* A 1993 study found, "Exposure to sexually stimulating materials may elicit aggressive behavior in youth who are predisposed to aggression. Sexually violent and degrading material elicits greater rates of aggression and may negatively affect male attitudes toward women." 7
* A 1984 evaluation of the increase in rape rates in various countries bears close correlation to liberalizing of restrictions on pornography.8
* Three separate studies demonstrate that exposure to violent pornography may increase males' laboratory aggression toward women.9,10,11

...

Pornography affects children

As much of the research demonstrates, there is a modest to strong correlation between exposure to pornography and deviant activity by individuals. Child-centered studies show that children are affected at least as much as adults are.

One researcher who argues that pornography harms children puts it this way, "A child's sexual development occurs gradually through childhood. Exposure to pornography shapes children's sexual perspective by providing them information on sexual activity. However, the type of information provided by pornography does not provide children with a normal sexual perspective."

"To children, pornography is instructional in that it provides a visual message about new information. However, that information is not an accurate portrayal of human sexuality. Photographs, videos, magazines, and virtual games which portray rape and the dehumanization of females in sexual scenes are powerful forms of sex education. Unlike learning provided in an educational setting, exposure to pornography is counterproductive to the goal of healthy and appropriate sexual development in children. It teaches without supervision or guidance, inundating children's minds with graphic messages about their bodies, their own sexuality, and those of adults and children around them." 25

...

ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:58 pm
@DrewDad,
Give me a break Drew!

In your eagerness to search for "research" that supports your already held prejudice, you cite an organization that argues homosexuality harms children (for the same reasons it believes pornography does).

Oh the joys of social science research as collated by political pressure groups.






ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Nov, 2009 01:03 pm
@ebrown p,
For the record.

I am not advocating that children be exposed to pornography (and as a parent, I make it clear that this is not permitted).

I am merely suggesting overreacting to grossly exaggerated risks is unwarranted (and possibly counterproductive).



 

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