John Allen Muhammed Executed in VA at 9:22 pm

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

I am one who opposes the death penalty. But, when there is no doubt the person is guilty, I feel no sympathy for the executed.

so what? It is not about them, it is about us, who we are as a society, what we care about. It appears that we care more about retribution than we do about justice, and this is sad.

3 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Us? Who is this "us?" It ain't everybody, even though you say it that way to weed out diverse opinions.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

What do we call those countries where the bosses decide upon a result for a trial, and then organize the necessary trial to get to that result.......banana republic, isn't that it??? Maybe bankrupt and/or corrupt nation??

Anyway, I am not thrilled to live in a nation where the bosses are willing to manipulate the law with the express purpose of imposing max retribution upon a fellow citizen. This is not justice, this is barbarism......barbarism were the patina of civility has been applied with just enough thickness so that we can lie to ourselves about how despicable we are and get away with it.

That is disorganized nonsense.
It is government 's duty first to discriminate between the innocent
and the guilty and then to avenge the victim upon the perpetrator.

If government failed to do that,
then, by default, the natural right to get even
devolves and reverts back to the victim
or to some Good Samaritan who acts on the victim 's behalf.

After he was killed, he shoud have been brought back to life
and killed again, for each of his murder victims. <chuckle>

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

It is government 's duty first to discriminate between the innocent
and the guilty and then to avenge the victim upon the perpetrator.

Bullshit, it is the governments duty first to protect the integrity of the process, this is more important than getting to the desired result in cases.

Look what we have with the FLDS raid at Eldorado, where the raid was not justified, was in fact illegal, and yet the government is using DNA evidence taken from the residents by force at the time to get to convictions....which is the desired result. The American legal system is corrupt, we should reform it immediately, make it into something that honors civility and adheres to the US Constitution.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I am one who opposes the death penalty. But, when there is no doubt the person is guilty, I feel no sympathy for the executed.

so what? It is not about them, it is about us, who we are as a society, what we care about. It appears that we care more about retribution than we do about justice, and this is sad.

I misread your statement, hawkeye.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
It is government 's duty first to discriminate between the innocent
and the guilty and then to avenge the victim upon the perpetrator.

Bullshit, it is the governments duty first to protect the integrity of the process, this is more important than getting to the desired result in cases.

Look what we have with the FLDS raid at Eldorado, where the raid was not justified, was in fact illegal, and yet the government is using DNA evidence taken from the residents by force at the time to get to convictions....which is the desired result. The American legal system is corrupt, we should reform it immediately, make it into something that honors civility and adheres to the US Constitution.

I don 't deny that there has to be a fair trial.
U think that something was rong with the trial ?

U think the defendant got railroaded ?

U think we got the rong defendant ?

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

It appears that we care more about retribution than we do about justice, and this is sad.

Trite and meaningless hawkeye.
Justice is just the maintenace of either reward or punishment. Punishment includes components of
restoration (if possible) and retribution. So , not to use cap punishment removes oneof the potential components of punishment. As a society founded in law,unlawful acts cannot be tolerated and must be punished. How does the mere act of incarceration satisfy our societal needs to punish unlawful acts? Its gotten quite fashionalble to preech platitudes about cap punishment and its failure to have any affect on murder rates. Cap punishment is PUNISHMENT, and , in its best use, should be met out for guys like Muhammed (and ,mdare I say, after weve gotten our microscopic inspection out of the Ft Hood terrorist, give him a ride also). WHen the acts are EVIL, premeditated, and heinous , the ride on Sparky should be a guaranteed prize for the perps. Being a Quakerist may be a fashionable place in some circles, not mine. Most of the anti death penalty types, when questioned, arent really too deep in theior analyses, its usually some emotional revulsion that focuses their feelings.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

the subject is jurisdiction shopping, not the death penalty.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I don 't deny that there has to be a fair trial.
U think that something was rong with the trial ?

U think the defendant got railroaded ?

U think we got the rong defendant

I think that Jurisdiction shopping violates the principles of justice and fair play, that the fact that we do it so often reflects badly upon us. this individual may or may not have gotten a fair trial, I have no opinion on that matter, but how he came to be in that court instead of a different court betrays our lack of civility, our appetite for retribution.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I don 't deny that there has to be a fair trial.
U think that something was rong with the trial ?

U think the defendant got railroaded ?

U think we got the rong defendant

I think that Jurisdiction shopping violates the principles of justice and fair play, that the fact that we do it so often reflects badly upon us. this individual may or may not have gotten a fair trial, I have no opinion on that matter, but how he came to be in that court instead of a different court betrays our lack of civility, our appetite for retribution.

Must u express yourself in such BROAD GENERALITIES ??
Specificly, what is the problem ?

Incorrect venue ?

0 Replies

As I said, since I know the guy was guilty, I feel no remorse over his execution. But, since justice must be even handed, I stand against the death penalty. There are many instances where we "know" the person deserves to die. Then we are all too often informed that the convicted was innocent. Sometimes before the execution; sometimes after they are buried.

1 Reply

I used to strongly favor the death penalty, to avenge a murder victim.

Now, I wonder whether life in prison is worse.
He will die anyway, no matter what.
If u subject him to years of discomfort,
then he gets that + the death penalty.

Just some idle musings

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I wonder what it would have been like to have been one of his victims, and to have a bullet enter your body while you're going about your business, assuming that some of the vitims may have remained conscious for a few minutes. I wonder what it would be like to have this guy murder someone you love. His accomplice admitted everything and gave details. We knew that he was guilty about as much as one can know anything. He got what he deserved.

2 Replies

@Brandon9000,

I wonder what it would be like if you were walking in the bush and a hyena tore out your throat.

3 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Just wondering.

0 Replies

I am against the death penalty because innocent people can be killed. I have no sympathy for the guilty, but killing them seems pointless. I am against the death penalty because I do not like the idea of a government having the power to kill citizens. I am against the death penalty because I do not think it makes us better as a civilization. I think some people on death row are there because they were suicidal to start and want to provoke the state to end their pain. Some people need to be permanently removed from society, but that does not have to equal killing them.

0 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

I wonder what it would have been like to have been one of his victims, and to have a bullet enter your body while you're going about your business, assuming that some of the vitims may have remained conscious for a few minutes. I wonder what it would be like to have this guy murder someone you love. His accomplice admitted everything and gave details. We knew that he was guilty about as much as one can know anything. He got what he deserved.

SO STIPULATED

David

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I wonder what it would be like if you were walking in the bush and a hyena tore out your throat.

An evasion to my point, which doesn't surprise me at all. I presume that if you had a real counter-argument, you would use it. To make my point even clearer, this person cruelly inflicted immense pain, and we know he's guilty. He deserved the punishment he got.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I wonder what it would be like if you were walking in the bush
and a hyena tore out your throat.

Will your curiosity move u to put that to the test, Ed ?
Going to Africa ?

Send us pictures ?

0 Replies

I don 't mean this in any cruel way,
but sometimes I wonder -- as a matter of genuine interest -- how pacifists
(referring to anti-defensive gunnery, anti-death penalty folks)
woud respond if thay unexpectedly became victims of violence.

Woud thay wish for a competent defensive weapon?

Woud thay wish to avenge themselves, or their favorite people,
if thay fell victim to violence, suffering grave, permanent injuries ?

Except for having a window of my car shot out while I was driving it,
I have never had much of a problem with this,
nor have any of my most dearly beloved been thusly afflicted,
so I can 't speak from experience about this.

David

0 Replies

John Allen Muhammed Executed in VA at 9:22 pm

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