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JP DENIES INTERACIAL COUPLE MARRAIGE LISCENSE

 
 
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 02:58 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
[............]
High Seas wrote:
To the point: if that JP isn't in breach of any Louisiana statute (and as of now nobody can show anything to the contrary) then I also don't see how he can be accused of being in breach of civil rights laws: all he seems to have been doing is repeating the argument made in Muller by Brandeis.

One does not have to be in breach of a state statute in order to act in an unconstitutional manner.

Your comment is self-evident, but that's not my argument. I don't care if whatever Virginia statute was overturned in Loving was unconstitutional, I know the statute to have been unenforceable and can prove this mathematically using dynamic programming algorithms for random sequences as found e.g. in the decoded human genome. For example: the aboriginals of Papua-New Guinea are black, but their DNA shows them to have even fewer "African" genes than Europeans. In 1967 (date of the Loving decision) DNA's right handed double helix had long been known but we lacked the massively parallel computational resources to map the human genome. Presumably the Virginia and the 42 other states' similar statutes only meant to distinguish black persons potentially descendants of former slaves (to protect some property rights, if I remember correctly) and never meant to include people like the ANZ aborigines, who may be pitch-black but who had no slaves among their ancestors. And you will, I hope, agree that keeping unenforceable laws on the books simply makes the law look silly, so whatever the constitutionality of that Virginia statute it should have been stricken from the books as unenforceable on computational grounds.

However, that's not my argument: if you read again my statement as quoted in your post you'll see I make no connection between any potential breach of Louisiana statutes and the hypothetical anticonstitutionality of the JP's opinion you postulate. I find the "equal protection" clause as applying to race de facto meaningless since the full decoding of the human genome, and I therefore consider threats of charging the JP with breach of "civil rights" laws absurd.

He has an opinion on the color-coordination of the contracting parties in a marriage ceremony? Let him. I also have an opinion on letting homosexuals serve openly in fighting units; my opinion is shared by every senior military officer in the US and allied armed forces. You don't share it, fine. I see no reason to freak out and get hysterical as some posters here - the latter set definitely not including you. And yes, I do think the Brandeis Muller brief is the most relevant here, not because of any connection with protecting womanhood, but because of its affirmation of "police powers" without which any state or organization is bound to collapse into total anarchy. I did say at the outset it was a subtle argument and hope that latest analysis has made it clear.
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:11 pm
@engineer,
LOL engineer - I got this from your second link >
Quote:
....Vitter spokesman Joel DiGrado emails me this: “First, Sen. Vitter thinks that all judges should follow the law as written and not make it up as they go along. Second, it would be amazing for anyone to do a story based on this fringe, left-wing political hack’s blog " he’s been handcuffed and detained in the past over his guerrilla tactics.”

> and wonder if you know whether the blogger accusing the senator really ever got detained for "guerilla tactics"?!
0 Replies
 
KiwiChic
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:20 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
ANZ aborigines


just getting off the track here, but who are the ANZ aborigines?... a new banking institute I have never heard of?
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:26 pm
@KiwiChic,
Hi Kiwi - you may have noticed that political correctness never tainted my character in the least; I was abbreviating, as is the habit of the mathematical tribe to which I belong. With your name, you've probably seen this illustration before:
http://z.hubpages.com/u/1633339_f496.jpg
http://hubpages.com/hub/Aborigines-New-Zealand
KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:29 pm
@High Seas,
...er they are not Aborigines they are MAORI, we dont have aborigines in New Zealand lol
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:32 pm
@KiwiChic,
Kiwi - I SAID I was abbreviating.... Also meant to include Papua-New Guinea in the ANZ grouping. Brevity matters, political correctness doesn't.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:35 pm
@High Seas,
I don't think it's 'PC' to call people by their, yaknow, names.

Cycloptichorn
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:38 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The term I use is how they're known by the decoders of the human genome, so enough with the PC aggravation:
[img]The Human Migration Project and DNA tracking ..... Africans migrated to Australia, later up to New Guinea. and later to New Zealand and form there to the islands to the east and northeast inthe Pacific Ocean.[/img]
KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:44 pm
@High Seas,
Africans??? LOL this is getting more bizarre Africans went the other way....ever heard of the Mori Ori's are they part of the ANZ group as well?? LOL
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 03:59 pm
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

Your comment is self-evident, but that's not my argument. I don't care if whatever Virginia statute was overturned in Loving was unconstitutional, I know the statute to have been unenforceable and can prove this mathematically using dynamic programming algorithms for random sequences as found e.g. in the decoded human genome. For example: the aboriginals of Papua-New Guinea are black, but their DNA shows them to have even fewer "African" genes than Europeans. In 1967 (date of the Loving decision) DNA's right handed double helix had long been known but we lacked the massively parallel computational resources to map the human genome. Presumably the Virginia and the 42 other states' similar statutes only meant to distinguish black persons potentially descendants of former slaves (to protect some property rights, if I remember correctly) and never meant to include people like the ANZ aborigines, who may be pitch-black but who had no slaves among their ancestors. And you will, I hope, agree that keeping unenforceable laws on the books simply makes the law look silly, so whatever the constitutionality of that Virginia statute it should have been stricken from the books as unenforceable on computational grounds.

However, that's not my argument:

Then why did you spend so much time on it?

High Seas wrote:
if you read again my statement as quoted in your post you'll see I make no connection between any potential breach of Louisiana statutes and the hypothetical anticonstitutionality of the JP's opinion you postulate.

Actually, you did.

High Seas wrote:
I find the "equal protection" clause as applying to race de facto meaningless since the full decoding of the human genome, and I therefore consider threats of charging the JP with breach of "civil rights" laws absurd.

Only if you consider "race" to be a scientific concept. Racists, however, are generally not overly concerned with the scientific basis of their racial views. It is fortunate, therefore, that the civil rights laws don't protect scientific classifications, they protect people.

High Seas wrote:
He has an opinion on the color-coordination of the contracting parties in a marriage ceremony? Let him. I also have an opinion on letting homosexuals serve openly in fighting units; my opinion is shared by every senior military officer in the US and allied armed forces. You don't share it, fine. I see no reason to freak out and get hysterical as some posters here - the latter set definitely not including you.

I don't think anyone has said that the JP could not hold the opinion that mixed race couples shouldn't marry. As a private citizen, he can entertain any opinion he likes, no matter how vicious or idiotic it might be. The point, however, has been that the JP can't act on that opinion in his capacity as a JP and refuse to issue marriage licenses to mixed-race couples.

High Seas wrote:
And yes, I do think the Brandeis Muller brief is the most relevant here, not because of any connection with protecting womanhood, but because of its affirmation of "police powers" without which any state or organization is bound to collapse into total anarchy. I did say at the outset it was a subtle argument and hope that latest analysis has made it clear.

The police power is not an all-purpose "get out of jail free" card for states or even wayward JPs. If it were, then a state could simply abrogate the entire constitution by virtue of its police powers. A state can only exercise its police power in conjunction with the constitution. In other words, a regulation promulgated under a state's police power must still adhere to the constitution. If it doesn't, then it's unconstitutional, and the fact that it was passed pursuant to the state's police power will avail it nothing.
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 06:15 pm
@KiwiChic,
KiwiChic wrote:

...er they are not Aborigines they are MAORI, we dont have aborigines in New Zealand lol


Yeah, the Maori were Polynesian settlers that arrived sometime pre-1300 and the Moriori were also Polynesian settlers possibly (or not) before the Maori that inhabited an area close to mainland New Zealand (Aotearoa) Is that right?
KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Oct, 2009 10:44 pm
@Eorl,
why yes (finally someone who knows what they are talking about)

....I know that he means by stating the word 'aboriginal' he means 'native' to that land...but specifics may help as in 'Maori' ....

ANZ is a common banking institute that is used in both NZ and Australia...saying ANZ Aborigine is just a bit unfamiliar as to whom or what he was exactly referring to also as is by saying 'Aboriginal New Zealand Aborigine' aka ANZ aborigine as he stated, is an insult to NZ Maori...as 'Aborigine' is the common name for the Natives of Australia used today.

...and she takes a bow and exits!
High Seas
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 02:37 pm
@KiwiChic,
Kiwi - what you don't know about the human genome fills massive computer banks. Try simpler stuff, like migration patterns - yes, out of Africa:
http://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/gut-bugs-divulge-human-migration-patterns-pacific
Quote:
Previous studies suggest humans migrated out of Africa to Asia roughly 60,000 years ago. From there, humans moved across a region called Sundaland " an area once connected to mainland Asia that now makes up the Malay peninsula, Sumatra, Java, Borneo, and Bali.

Btw, your Pacific Islanders may be known to you by a specific name, but do you also know the names of hundreds of different tribes of their Polynesian / Micronesian ancestors, not to mention their Papua-New Guinea cousins? Have you ever looked at the picture of the last surviving genetically 100% Tasmanian? Doubt it Smile
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 02:41 pm
@joefromchicago,
We're in agreement on most of your post; I appreciate the time you took to write your learned legal opinion. As to your first question, why I took so much time on the genetic decoding, it's simple, I work on designing mathematical models for massively parallel systems (using any number of the new computer languages, some of which may yet handle qubits one day) and DNA sequencing is one of the most interesting apps.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 02:46 pm
@Eorl,
Eorl wrote:
....
Yeah, the Maori were Polynesian settlers that arrived sometime pre-1300 and the Moriori were also Polynesian settlers possibly (or not) before the Maori that inhabited an area close to mainland New Zealand (Aotearoa) ...

The Moriori unfortunately have left no DNA to examine, having been exterminated by the Maori in Chatham Islands in 1835.
KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 02:48 pm
@High Seas,
you can also say the same for white Caucasians as well if you want to get down to the specifics, you need to talk in the present not a million years ago beginning with first bloody man! and why would I even think to look at the last surviving Tasmanian?
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 02:51 pm
@KiwiChic,
KiwiChic wrote:

..... why would I even think to look at the last surviving Tasmanian?


Because she, named Truganini, was the last one of a DNA line continuing unbroken for 60,000 years. No other group of humans on earth has accomplished that - every other DNA line shows admixtures - and the Tasmanians only did it accidentally because the waters rose after the last glaciation cutting them off from mainland Australia.
KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 02:51 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
The Moriori unfortunately have left no DNA to examine, having been exterminated by the Maori in Chatham Islands in 1835.


you need to stop reading and believing everything you read off the internet as we still have descendants of the Moriori left!!!!! and that is a FACT!
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 02:53 pm
@KiwiChic,
Yes, you have "descendants", same as there are "descendants" of the last 100% Tasmanians, but mixed with other DNA, including sealers and white settlers. As to your idea I'm getting my DNA sequencing information "off the internet" LOL, you don't KNOW how funny that was Smile
0 Replies
 
KiwiChic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Oct, 2009 02:53 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
Because she, named Truganini, was the last one of a DNA line continuing unbroken for 60,000 years. No other group of humans on earth has accomplished that - every other DNA line shows admixtures - and the Tasmanians only did it accidentally because the waters rose after the last glaciation cutting them off from mainland Australia.


Im not Australian.
 

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