JP DENIES INTERACIAL COUPLE MARRAIGE LISCENSE

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
You want to know who is racist in your community. See who shows up to protest a redrawing of school district lines

no, normally those people have kids that go/ would go to the good schools, and who are afraid that the new lines would lower the quality of their schools by putting less able to learn kids in those schools. Or likewise send their ready to learn kids to schools where most of the kids are not.

You demonstrate my point well here.

The lower and higher quality of schools have been traditionally drafted to be as such by a gerrymandering of school districts to keep impoverished and minority neighborhoods in their school, while keeping wealthier neighborhoods together. In the end, school districts aren't about proximity to school, but rather social hierarchy. It becomes a less consistent service to the students because of funding to different schools.

hawkeye10 wrote:

I don't think that you will ever find anyone who objects to smart Asian kids coming into their schools, the objection is to blacks or Hispanics who are going to lower the quality of the school. This is not racism. It is not the race that anyone cares about.

This IS racism, hawkeye. Calling it not, does not make it so.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Edit: property values also count, if the schools in the area become lower quality schools property values generally take a good hit.

You're only pointing out the corruption of the past. I'm not sympathetic.

T
K
O

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I don't think that you will ever find anyone who objects to smart Asian kids coming into their schools, the objection is to blacks or Hispanics who are going to lower the quality of the school. This is not racism.

You say tomato, I say RACISM!

It's the very definition of racism. Compounded by a cowardly "it's what other folk are thinking" attempt to justify it.

I, for one, actively sought out a school for my kids with the maximum degree of ethnic and cultural diversity. Even that has a degree of racism about it, but you sir/madam, are an arrogant bigoted racist of the worst kind.

(Hawkeye of course, not TKO)

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The Rapist Boy (also wishing to be known as Hawkeye) loves to assume the role of a long-suffering martyr to truth and honesty (his freedom of speech rants are hilarious), and likes to portray himself as being abused just because he calls a spade a spade, and points out that spades typically want to rob you.

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@Diest TKO,

Diest TKO wrote:

You want to know who is racist in your community. See who shows up to protest a redrawing of school district lines.

We're going through this right now. I started a thread here: http://able2know.org/topic/137510-1. A lot of the concerns here, including mine, are around busing children all over town without addressing the core issues that hinder school performance. My children have been at racially segregated schools for their entire acedemic careers.

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@Diest TKO,

There has to be other, objective, reasons for not wanting your district to be redrawn besides racism, doesn't there?

Test scores perhaps? Distance from school? Seperating high school friends?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

There has to be other, objective, reasons for not wanting your district to be redrawn besides racism, doesn't there?

Sure. I didn't say it was the only reason. In general, I'd say that the racism factor I described is about benign racism.

The way I see it is that it's a means to maintain some degree of segregation in our schools, and keep the majority of funding into the schools with upper middle class children.

maporsche wrote:

Test scores perhaps?

1) It doesn't mean your student will have good test scores
2) If your city is showing a huge variance in test score averages, it could be EXACTLY the reason to redistrict so that resources are better shared amongst the schools.

maporsche wrote:

Distance from school?

Probably the only complaint I'm compassionate about. The way that many school districts work right now is that distance is less a factor. Many old school districts were drafted in ways to keeps schools mostly segregated. In this situation, you don't see much care given to distance. Lower income housing may be closer to the nicer High School, but it's the nice suburban fenced in community 15 minutes further away that goes to that school.

maporsche wrote:

Separating high school friends?

Sympathetic, but I don't think the city has a duty to accommodate. If our Middle School districts are designed such that they feed into the same high schools, this shouldn't be an issue.

T
K
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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

High Seas wrote:

I completely fail to see how a white caucus would constitute a "hate group" whereas a black caucus does not.

Because Congress is already practically a white caucus. There is not currently a need for white congressmen to ban together to promote white rights when white rights have been protected by the majority since the nation's founding. If such an organization formed the purpose of maintaining the existing system where white people have even to preferential treatment, that's going to be considered racist. It makes a difference if you are fighting to achieve equal rights or if you are fighting to maintain superior rights.

Engineer - you, unlike most other posters here, cannot claim ignorance of math and science, so it's surprising you went ahead with a comment on imagined rather than actual facts. The subject was the Louisiana Black Caucus, not some Congressional Caucus as you assume. Louisiana blacks are about half the number of whites, or a 2 to 1 ratio - hardly an overwhelmed minority. Source: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/22000.html

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

Quote:
Did anyone else notice that this shitheel was using stats from a David Duke website?

Hadn't noticed but that's really not surprising is, is it? He's a piece of ****.

I don't know what a Duke website is, since no link was given by Snood or Hawkeye, but I do know where to look up official US statistics on prison populations - the US Department of Justice:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

Quote:

At midyear 2008, there were 4,777 black male inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents being held in state or federal prison and local jails, compared to 1,760 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents and 727 white male inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents.

Wherever Hawkeye got his statistics he is undoubtedly correct in stating that black male inmates are represented in numbers greatly exceeding their percentage in the population as a whole. That is demonstrable fact, not merely Hawkeye's opinion; I don't understand why anybody here is arguing against it. And btw, what's this about him being a rapist?! Any supporting evidence, or is this the latest variant of "nazi", "racist", and so on?

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@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Louisiana blacks are about half the number of whites, or a 2 to 1 ratio - hardly an overwhelmed minority.

Hardly.

T
K
Rolling Eyes

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@Fatima10,

Fatima10 wrote:

This judge is not following the Laws of the United States of America.....

Fatima - a JP is an official of his or her State. The State of Louisiana for historical reasons relating to its purchase from the Crown of France has laws different from most other U.S. States. Here' s some legal background:

Quote:

French civil code enacted by Napoleon in 1804. It clarified and made uniform the private law of France and followed Roman law in being divided into three books: the law of persons, things, and modes of acquiring ownership of things. In Louisiana, the only civil-law state in the U.S., the civil code of 1825 (revised in 1870 and still in force) is closely connected to the Napoleonic Code. See also law code.

http://www.answers.com/topic/code-civil-popularly-code-napoleon-or-napoleonic-code

I'm not a lawyer in Louisiana (or anywhere else) and after many pages of this thread I still don't see anyone able to show whether what the JP did is legal under Louisiana state law or not. I'd like to know the answer to that - it's the main issue here. Insults and baseless opinions are a waste of time.

2 Replies

@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

Fatima10 wrote:

This judge is not following the Laws of the United States of America.....

Fatima - a JP is an official of his or her State. The State of Louisiana for historical reasons relating to its purchase from the Crown of France has laws different from most other U.S. States. Here' s some legal background:

Quote:
French civil code enacted by Napoleon in 1804. It clarified and made uniform the private law of France and followed Roman law in being divided into three books: the law of persons, things, and modes of acquiring ownership of things. In Louisiana, the only civil-law state in the U.S., the civil code of 1825 (revised in 1870 and still in force) is closely connected to the Napoleonic Code. See also law code.

http://www.answers.com/topic/code-civil-popularly-code-napoleon-or-napoleonic-code

I'm not a lawyer in Louisiana (or anywhere else) and after many pages of this thread I still don't see anyone able to show whether what the JP did is legal under Louisiana state law or not. I'd like to know the answer to that - it's the main issue here. Insults and baseless opinions are a waste of time.

Discrimination based on race by a state actor is unlawful in every state in the union via the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution and the Fourteenth Amendment. Discrimination based on race (a denial of equal protection of the laws) by a state actor is expressly prohibited (and thus unlawful) pursuant to Article I, Section 3 of the Louisiana State Constitution:

§3. Right to Individual Dignity

No person shall be denied the equal protection of the laws. No law shall discriminate against a person because of race or religious ideas, beliefs, or affiliations. No law shall arbitrarily, capriciously, or unreasonably discriminate against a person because of birth, age, sex, culture, physical condition, or political ideas or affiliations. Slavery and involuntary servitude are prohibited, except in the latter case as punishment for crime.

http://senate.legis.state.la.us/documents/Constitution/Default.htm

1 Reply

@High Seas,

If this has already been posted I apologize:

When it comes to civil rights laws, I believe federal law trumps state law. Specifically Loving vs Virginia

Quote:

Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)[1], was a landmark civil rights case in which the United States Supreme Court, by a 9-0 vote, declared Virginia's anti-miscegenation statute, the "Racial Integrity Act of 1924", unconstitutional, thereby overturning Pace v. Alabama (1883) and ending all race-based legal restrictions on marriage in the United States.

Perhaps the JP didn't break a law but I think Louisiana is moving to remove him from his job, which would take about a year.
In the the meantime couples are free to go to other JPs

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@Debra Law,

Thanks, Debra, but the question was not related to the US constitution, only to the peculiarities of Louisiana state law. Of course there is an order of importance, which roughly goes International Treaties > Constitution > Federal Law > State Law > Local Law; the order of priority isn't the issue, though.

The question is whether the JP acted in accordance with Louisiana State Law. If the law is unconstitutional - which law is it to begin with, and how do we know this, or are we merely speculating? - doesn't it have to be declared unconstitutional by a higher court? Does the Louisiana legislature have to declare local law null and void? Or is the process completely ad hoc? Thank you.

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@panzade,

Panzade - that was exactly my point in previous comment to Debra. Primacy of laws isn't the question, any local basis for his decision (other than what is being assumed here without much foundation) is. Thanks Smile

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@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

The question is whether the JP acted in accordance with Louisiana State Law. If the law is unconstitutional - which law is it to begin with, and how do we know this, or are we merely speculating? - doesn't it have to be declared unconstitutional by a higher court? Does the Louisiana legislature have to declare local law null and void?

Debra quoted the Louisiana constitution saying this conduct is illegal. It's not a matter of following an unconstitutional law, it is breaking the existing law. I don't understand why this is so hard. The JP is breaking laws, both federal and state.

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There is/was a news film of Bardwell on Yahoo news rationalizing his choice.

Maybe some high tech person can move it over to the thread for me. I dont know how to do it.

1 Reply

@Sglass,

Update at 11:28 p.m. ET: Baton Rouge's WAFB-TV reports that state Rep. Regina Barrow of the Louisiana Legislative Black Caucus has has signed off on a formal complaint requesting that the judiciary commission review the actions of the justice of the peace.

Update at 8:59 p.m. ET: The justice of the peace at the center of the controversy tells WAFB TV in an exlcusive interview that he has no regrets over his actions and would do it again.

"It's kind of hard to apologize for something that really and truly down in your heart you don't feel you've done wrong," Keith Bardwell told WAFB's David Spunt on Saturday.

"I don't regret what I did and if it ever came up again, I'd have to do the same thing," Bardwell tells WAFB.

Click here for more on the latest developments.

Update at 8:58 p.m. ET: U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., said in a statement Bardwell's practices and comments were deeply disturbing.

"Not only does his decision directly contradict Supreme Court rulings, it is an example of the ugly bigotry that divided our country for too long," she said.

Update at 8:13 p.m. ET: Louisiana's governor and a U.S. senator today have called for the ouster of the justice of the peace who refused to marry an interracial couple, saying his actions clearly broke the law, the Associated Press reports.

The state's Legislative Black Caucus and constitutional rights groups have also called for an investigation of Bardwell or his resignation.

Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal said in a statement a nine-member commission that reviews lawyers and judges in the state should investigate, the AP reports.

"Disciplinary action should be taken immediately " including the revoking of his license," Jindal said.

Original post:

A Louisiana justice of the peace who refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple last week says he's no racist but has drawn a sharp rebuke from civil rights organizations in the state, The Daily Star reports.

The couple say they plan to consult the U.S. Justice Department about filing a discrimination complaint.

Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, defends his actions by saying that it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long, The Star says.

“I’m not a racist,” Bardwell says. “I do ceremonies for black couples right here in my house. My main concern is for the children.”

Beth Humphrey, 30, and her boyfriend, Terence McKay, 32, both of Hammond, said they tried to get a marriage license last week but were told the JP will not sign licenses for interracial marriages.

“I simply can’t believe he can do that. That’s blatant discrimination,” Humphrey says, according to the newspaper.

Louisiana ACLU Executive Director Marjorie R. Esman called Bardwell's move both “tragic and illegal," the newspaper says.

Pat Morris, local NAACP president, says she was shocked to hear that the choice of a spouse is still an issue in the parish.

Bardwell, who has been a JP for 34 years, says the state attorney general told him years ago that he would eventually get into trouble for not performing interacil marriges.

1 Reply

@High Seas,

Quote:

Thanks, Debra, but the question was not related to the US constitution, only to the peculiarities of Louisiana state law.

This is extremely naive. Any law or conduct of public officials which violates the provisions of the fourteenth amendment relate the constitution to the event, and the fourteenth is the constitutional venue of "refuge" for those denied their full civil rights by state law, local law, local custom or the cupidity of any particular official.

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@Sglass,

Sglass wrote:

Bardwell, who has been a JP for 34 years, says the state attorney general told him years ago that he would eventually get into trouble for not performing interracial marriages.

I think this makes it worse. He had consultation is what this says to me. He knew full well the legality of his actions, and that there would be consequences. This means he was not acting in ignorance or under some misconception about the law. He did this fully knowing it was illegal.

I think he can be more than removed for office. I think he can be prosecuted for abuse of power.

T
K
O

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

has anyone offered evidence that a JP must sign a license if the applicants are legally entitled to be married? Is this not the same as a clergy member, who can marry two people but who also has the right to say no, thus demanding that the couple find somebody else?

The principle here might also be the same as for pharmacists, who in many places are allowed to refuse to provide service so long as they direct the one desiring the prescription to someone who will provide it. In this case the couple went to another JP in the same parish, so the burden on them was minuscule.

I don't care about interracial marriage, nor do I care about a JP refusing to do it so long as he did not violate the law. It is claimed that he did, but this is not clearly true. It might be true.

2 Replies

JP DENIES INTERACIAL COUPLE MARRAIGE LISCENSE

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