JP DENIES INTERACIAL COUPLE MARRAIGE LISCENSE

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Is this not the same as a clergy member, who can marry two people but who also has the right to say no, thus demanding that the couple find somebody else?

Good grief, Charlie Brown! How many times does this have to be explained to you before you get it through your thick skull?

A JP IS A STATE ACTOR, WHETHER ELECTED OR APPOINTED. HE HAS TO ADHERE TO THE LAWS OF HIS STATE AS WELL AS THE LAWS OF THE USA. A CLERGYMAN IS A PRIVATE PERSON REPRESENTING NOTHING MORE THAN HIS PARTICULAR RELIGION.

Tell us the truth. You're not really this stupid, are you?

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

non responsive. The state can not deny marriage to two people who are legally entitled to marry, but that does not necessarily mean that every individual who can marry them must, not even every state employee or deputized citizen. What is the law here?

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@hawkeye10,

Sounded responsive to me.

Maybe you meant to say non agreement.

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Somebody get a bat....
The governor has stated this was an illegal act. I'm sure that's not good enough for the resident racist either because Jindal is a person of colour too.

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@Ceili,

Louisiana politicians have a long history of making up the law as they go, what was previously written by the legislature being a mere inconvenience. Authoritative evaluation of the law is so far missing from the public discourse, the first 8 pages of google net only claims of illegal act, but no claims of what law has been broken.

A JP is a legal officer, but judges can under certain situations refuse cases. It is customary for the police to shop warrants around to different judges until they find one who is willing to sign. It is not a slam dunk that the JP broke any laws. He does not seem to think that he did in any case.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

has anyone offered evidence that a JP must sign a license if the applicants are legally entitled to be married? Is this not the same as a clergy member, who can marry two people but who also has the right to say no, thus demanding that the couple find somebody else?

A JP is an official of the state. He doesn't have discretionary authority on what he may do as JP. He is not acting as an individual, he is acting as a official of the state.

hawkeye10 wrote:

The principle here might also be the same as for pharmacists, who in many places are allowed to refuse to provide service so long as they direct the one desiring the prescription to someone who will provide it. In this case the couple went to another JP in the same parish, so the burden on them was minuscule.

It's not about burden on the parish, it's about the law of both the state and the nation being upheld.

hawkeye10 wrote:

I don't care about interracial marriage, nor do I care about a JP refusing to do it so long as he did not violate the law. It is claimed that he did, but this is not clearly true. It might be true.

It is very clearly illegal. Your attempt to confound this topic is a futile act. The man knew what he was doing, and knew it was illegal.

T
K
O

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Louisiana politicians have a long history of making up the law as they go, what was previously written by the legislature being a mere inconvenience. Authoritative evaluation of the law is so far missing from the public discourse, the first 8 pages of google net only claims of illegal act, but no claims of what law has been broken.

you're trying awefully damn hard to ignore the USSC ruling on thhis aren't you? I mean, hell, Debra even posted the summary of the ruling here. The law was set nationally by Loving v Virginia. You like to pretend as if you're searching really hard to understand what law he has broken to pose, but it's been delivered to your doorstep multiple times now.

hawkeye10 wrote:

A JP is a legal officer, but judges can under certain situations refuse cases. It is customary for the police to shop warrants around to different judges until they find one who is willing to sign. It is not a slam dunk that the JP broke any laws. He does not seem to think that he did in any case.

It's not a law that all request for warrants must be signed. Cops shop around because they think they can appeal to the reasoning of different judges. There is no reasoning involved in the JP's duty to issue marriage licenses. JP's responsibility are to make sure they are eligible, then approve. It is law that legally eligible couple must be able to marry in the States.

If I'm old enough to drive, and I pass my test, the worker at the DMV doesn't have the authority to tell me to go to the next window to get my license printed because they don't approve of Asian's driving.

T
K
O

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Poor Hawkeye. Ignorance is bliss huh?

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He's a government employee. He has no discretionary authority to refuse to marry people who have done whatever paperwork is required. He can do whatever he wants on his own time, but this isn't his own time. It's a disgrace that he wasn't sacked instantly. Fire him at once.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Brandon...succinctly put. Kudos

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I don't understand how anyone can support what the guy did. When he became a JP, he knew what his duties were. He has a duty to issue a marriage license to anyone who meets the state's requirements for marriage. He might well believe that interracial couples have a tougher time and that their children may well have difficulties. But that does not relieve him of his duty to issue a license if they met all the state imposed qualifications for one. If issuing a license to an interracial couple goes against his conscience, then he should step down because he will be incapable of performing his duties as mandated by the state.

1 Reply

@CoastalRat,

Quote:

I don't understand how anyone can support what the guy did

I am not aware of anyone supporting what he did. I for instance am only saying that it is not clear that what he did was illegal. He refused to sign, but told the couple where to go to get it signed, this may or may not be hindering their marriage enough to be called discrimination. If the JP had no discretion then it does not matter, but I don't think we know what his legal ability to refuse to sign was.

I think that a lot of folks are taking their moral outrage and assuming that he committed an illegal act, think that is should be illegal. I have seen no proof yet that it was.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

I for instance am only saying that it is not clear that what he did was illegal.

If it is unclear, it is only unclear to you, with your agenda to claim that society is warped by adherence to political rectitude. Everyone else here knows both that this is illegal, and that it constitutes malfeasance in his office. That you are unwilling to admit as much is not evidence of a genuine question about the situation, it is simply evidence of your pigheaded attempt to claim that something is going on here which is not in fact going on.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Obviously, if in LA a JP can refuse to issue a marriage license for any old reason he feels like, then I guess he did not do anything illegal. But my guess is that in LA a JP is required to issue the license if the couple meet the state requirements for obtaining a license. Since by his admission he refused on purely personal reasons, then my guess is he illegally refused to issue the license.

As an aside, this has nothing to do with moral outrage of any kind on my part. I am supporting what the duly constituted law would be here. If he had leeway within the law to refuse to issue the license for whatever reason he wanted, then I would not have any problem with his actions here. I just doubt that that is the case.

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@Setanta,

yes, it seems to be common knowledge that a crime has been committed, but what law has been broken? Stipulating that the couple had a right to marry, and that the state can not refuse that right, there still may be some right of a deputized citizen to refuse to do the deed. I have some foggy memory of a case 20+ years ago that said that state employees do not have the discretion to refuse to sign, but I may be wrong, and this case is a little different.

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@hawkeye10,

Deb pointed this out quite clearly -

Quote:

Discrimination based on race (a denial of equal protection of the laws) by a state actor is expressly prohibited (and thus unlawful) pursuant to Article I, Section 3 of the Louisiana State Constitution:

§3. Right to Individual Dignity

No person shall be denied the equal protection of the laws. No law shall discriminate against a person because of race or religious ideas, beliefs, or affiliations. No law shall arbitrarily, capriciously, or unreasonably discriminate against a person because of birth, age, sex, culture, physical condition, or political ideas or affiliations. Slavery and involuntary servitude are prohibited, except in the latter case as punishment for crime.

http://senate.legis.state.la.us/documents/Constitution/Default.htm

JP is an officer of the law

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

You're wasting your time, Cyclo . . . Rapist Boy has his witless agenda, which he intends to pursue without regard to the evidence of its idiocy . . .

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I'm guessing hawkeye is a water softener salesman and has trouble servicing his valves.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

, but that does not necessarily mean that every individual who can marry them must, not even every state employee or deputized citizen.

It does mean every state actor must. A JP is a state actor.

In Louisiana.

Where it matters.

In this case.

(do you have the entire board on ignore?)

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

hawkeye10 wrote:

, but that does not necessarily mean that every individual who can marry them must, not even every state employee or deputized citizen.

Not every state employee or deputized citizen is certified by the state to perform marriages either. One of a JP's primary responsibilities is to marry people. He's not doing his job if he is foisting couples off to be married by another JP (co-worker).

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JP DENIES INTERACIAL COUPLE MARRAIGE LISCENSE

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