JP DENIES INTERACIAL COUPLE MARRAIGE LISCENSE

@Eorl,

Eorl wrote:

Do you really think that there is a direct causal link between skin colour and propensity for gang violence?

I think there are more minority gangs than there are white gangs. I happen to think (and even stated clearly no more than a few pages ago) that blacks having a higher liklihood of being criminals has more to do with their poverty levels than the color of their skin.

I wonder if the prevelance of black gangs has an impact on the liklihood of blacks of all income levels to join a gang (especially in he inner city). Meaning, I wonder if more middle class blacks join a gang than middle class whites.

But no; I don't think there is a causal link. Nor do I understand how you could gather that from my post.

Quote:

I'm guessing you have the same skin colour as most Nazi's? Should I draw any conclusions about you from that?

Why do you have to go and bring Nazi's into this? What are you trying to convey?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

blacks having a higher liklihood of being criminals has more to do with their poverty levels than the color of their skin.

agreed

maporsche wrote:

I wonder if the prevelance of black gangs has an impact on the liklihood of blacks of all income levels to join a gang (especially in he inner city). Meaning, I wonder if more middle class blacks join a gang than middle class whites. But no; I don't think there is a causal link. Nor do I understand how you could gather that from my post.

Then we are largely in agreement.

maporsche wrote:

Why do you have to go and bring Nazi's into this? What are you trying to convey?

I'm trying to convey disgust at the ignorant and racist suggestion (not yours) that no-one is to blame for black gang violence but the blacks themselves. It's like history began at 8am this morning. That comment wasn't really aimed at you.

(Aside: "No-one is to blame for the plight of the Jews but the Jews themselves" was no doubt commonly expressed during the Nazi reign)

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@Eorl,

I hope that we are in agreement that the best way to solve this problem (gang violence and perpetual poverty) is to ensure that minorities have improved yet equal access to the same educations and programs that 'white' communities have. I don't think special treatment is the answer, but equal treatment should be ensured and we should settle for nothing less.

Those that choose to engage in criminal, gang behavior need to be dealt with fairly, but severly. This should happen regardless of the color of skin, and black criminals should be subject to the same penalties that whites are (no better, no worse) for the same crime.

Quite a bit of responsibility does rest on the black community to fix many of these problems. I've seen progress be made; but the problem does still remain, and to excuse it would be wrong in my opinion.

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@Eorl,

Quote:

maporsche wrote:

Quote:
blacks having a higher liklihood of being criminals has more to do with their poverty levels than the color of their skin.

agreed

It has to do with the black subculture, where work, family and education are not very highly valued. So long as blacks insist upon having their own subculture it is their responsibility to fix their poverty and broken family problems. The collective has for 40 years extended special opportunities and advantages to blacks, of the nature that no other minority group has ever gotten, and still a huge chunk of the black population wallows in poverty. In fact as a rule the only blacks that do not are the ones who mostly abandon the black subculture and assimilate with the larger culture. After 40 years black poverty is no longer an excuse for anything, it has been perpetuated by the blacks to the point where it is now their own fault.

The answer is to cut off all special programs intended to redress the harms done by slavery and the disadvantages they faced after slavery. That stuff is ancient history, the programs are no long serving any useful purpose, and they reinforce the perceptions among blacks that they are currently disadvantaged. They are not.... they don't work hard enough, and only they can fix their moral and ethical lapses which cause their laziness in the job market as well as towards building families.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Now we are getting to the tricky bit, and I can't come to a decision about what's best or fair.

If you take this to the extreme to demonstrate the problem... Imagine two tribes live next to each other. One has guns, the other not. One tribe steals everything they own and makes them slaves. Then they become more enlightened and declare equal rights for all, with equal penalty for theft, whether you come from the half of the tribe that previously took everything, or from the half from whom everything was taken. Perhaps there should have been a period of equalization first?

In the real case, worldwide, this equalisation has not happened, and European Imperialism took the best of everything and kept it to this day.

So ideally, yes, I'd love to see laws treat people equally, but is that really fair? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

For another real life example, look at the plight of our aboriginal population in Australia. We can't just say "right, it's a fair race from now". But what to do? I don't know. I don't think anyone does.

One thing I do know, is that crime that occurs in aboriginal communities is certainly not entirely their own fault. The same is true in America, though it may not be as obvious for a variety of reasons.

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@Sglass,

I'm in a mixed relationship, I'm white he's black, and we have a son. Yes we are unmarried but we are planning on getting married soon. So far we haven't run into any problems. I use to live in New Orleans and I couldn't believe that something like this had happened there. I know the United States is know as the melting pot but New Olreans is a city very rich in several heritages if it wasn't for the mixing of cultures there wouldn't be Cajuns/Creoles. The only reason people are going to treat a child from a mixed relationship badly is because of people like him he might not be racist in the back of the bus kind of way but he's still seeing people for color rather than who they are. If the couple is okay with bringing a child into this world than that is on then, they aren't asking him to raise the baby. He has no problem marring 2 white people or 2 black people who aren't made for each other and end up not lasting he doesn't consider those children.

1 Reply

@lkimble,

Ikimble, very close friends in Boston who are happy with their interracial marraige adopted an interracial child after they learned they could not have their own biological child. They wanted to be sure both races were complimented in their union.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

It has to do with the black subculture, where work, family and education are not very highly valued.

Fixing this misconception would be a great first step in understanding the issue better.

T
K
O

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@maporsche,

You want to know who is racist in your community. See who shows up to protest a redrawing of school district lines.

T
K
O

3 Replies

@Diest TKO,

Quote:

You want to know who is racist in your community. See who shows up to protest a redrawing of school district lines

no, normally those people have kids that go/ would go to the good schools, and who are afraid that the new lines would lower the quality of their schools by putting less able to learn kids in those schools. Or likewise send their ready to learn kids to schools where most of the kids are not.

I don't think that you will ever find anyone who objects to smart Asian kids coming into their schools, the objection is to blacks or Hispanics who are going to lower the quality of the school. This is not racism. It is not the race that anyone cares about.

Edit: property values also count, if the schools in the area become lower quality schools property values generally take a good hit.

2 Replies

Hey Hawkeye, what does a genius like you do for a living? How were your grades in school? Did you even graduate?

1 Reply

@Ceili,

If I have said something you think is stupid then by all means point it out...I will submit my evidence and you yours and we will see who is more on point.

I know what I am talking about, I am right much of the time and can often prove it. I am not interested in defending the individual hawkeye, only in defending my position as part of the process of determination of the truth. There is zero chance that the post above contains any errors of fact.

0 Replies

Answer the question. I find everything you said to be totally false, but I would appreciate an answer. Obviously you are the pinnacle of the American education system. Or at least you think you're above anyone of colour, so provide your stellar credentials. Clear up the mystery of what a brilliant guy such as yourself, with all the answers, does for a living. Did you graduate summa cum laude from Harvard? (should I translate). Did you run for president? Come on, if you're going to paint an entire group of people of colour and or ethnicity a drain on the school system, or society at large, you must the goods to back it up. So, go for it. Brag. Show us your stuff.

1 Reply

@Ceili,

this is the internet, personal biographies are unknown, unknowable, and thus irrelevant. You are gravely ignorant of the medium that you are attempting to use.

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Coward. I didn't ask for personal details. I asked what you did.
So I'm going to guess. I'd say you're a blue collar guy, a plumber perhaps. Barely passed grade ten, I'm guessing.
Oops, the internet maybe able to find you now. Sorry.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

no, normally those people have kids that go/ would go to the good schools, and who are afraid that the new lines would lower the quality of their schools by putting less able to learn kids in those schools. Or likewise send their ready to learn kids to schools where most of the kids are not.

This does happen to be true in some cases. The Chapel Hill/Carrboro City Schools in North Carolina are considered to be very good schools, even though most of the people of color live in the city and attend those schools.

The Orange County Schools which encompass the small towns in the surrounding area outside of the city lines including a very nice and rather exclusive little town called Hillsborough (where a lot of doctors and professors from Duke live) and are mostly white do not have the same stellar reputation.

When there was a movement to merge the city schools with the county schools which would have actually meant an influx of mostly white kids into the city schools - there was a HUGE outcry from the residents of Chapel Hill and Carrboro.

Not because people of color would be coming in - but if their house was sitting in the wrong neighborhood - their white kids would be sent to learn with other white kids in schools that were not considered to be of the same standard of the city schools- even though those were the schools that most of the children of color attended.

1 Reply

@Ceili,

You remind me of idiot Bill, who posted what he claimed was his address and asked for mine...

It is all about the logic and the evidence baby, who you or I am does not matter. But you are quite the snob aren't you....looking down your nose at blue collar guys as you do.

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Nope, I'm the product of a blue collar family. It's fairly common that well educated people don't hold your beliefs. There is a reason "Larry the Cable Guy" is popular. It's not the enlightened that made him rich or famous. Give yourself a pat on the back.
However, I'm not asking for your name, age, address, city, school or anything other than what you do, and if you graduated school.
Calling me prejudiced is rich. Don't like to be the object of derision do you. Doesn't feel to good, does it.
An ignorant white guy has just be disparaged. Let me get a tissue.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Ya, that happens too...

Everyone seems to want to see racial motivations for everything, and so that is what they tend to see. Much more often than race it is class that really matters to people, but when it comes to schools it is almost always ALL about the quality of education and money (property values).

0 Replies

@Ceili,

Quote:

It's fairly common that well educated people don't hold your beliefs.

well educated is code for having gone to the "right" schools, but in case you have failed to notice those "well educated" folks who are running our collective have done a bang-up job running us into the ground.

I am an alternative view. Assume for the sake of discussion that I was once one of them, became disillusioned, then radical, and now argue that the "well educated" are often full of ****. Reforms must be taken before it is too late, before revolution becomes inevitable.

0 Replies

JP DENIES INTERACIAL COUPLE MARRAIGE LISCENSE

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