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Muslim girl suspended for head scarf

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 07:57 pm
I beg your pardon Smile
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:01 pm
LOL! We used to have undies inspections - bottle green.

Well, I still fail to understand. Here - schools with rigid dress codes - including stupid kilts and ties which I had to wear every day for 12 years - just add a yarmulke or a muslim whatsit or a sikh turban - they may look odd, but hey.

I actually agree with Craven that some sort of dress code is helpful - even if only to focus the kids' rebellion on reasonably low level stuff - but, this seems nits to me.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:02 pm
And nuts, too, dammit.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:08 pm
One more important point is that they are doing this to the Muslim girl not for the reasons that we acre citing but for a different one:

Fairness.

Her headwear is not for gangbanging or any disrupticve activity. But the school has to herd cats and when they make exceptions to the rules (even if the exception amkes a lot of sense) they make the rules harder to enforce.

And frankly schools in America have a hell of a hard time as it is. It's not just herding cats, it's herding cats with attitude.
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rufio
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:13 pm
There are cats without attitude?
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:14 pm
Yes, I have one with and one without.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:15 pm
Cats with attitude is right. I think we brought all this upon ourselves by taking away too much authority from the teachers. Times have changed, and I'm not certain what will work in our schools today. It's a jungle out there!
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:16 pm
Tell that to siegfred and Roy
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:31 pm
lets also not forget that this school is in Oklahoma,in the same city as Oral Roberts University, not the most enlightened of Politii!. Had it been here in Colorado, or in NY or Maryland, etc...(and especially Seattle) no one would have likely said a thing!
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:37 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
If she has a brother is the school required to allow him to stop and pray five times a day whilst facing Mecca? No, he's not required to do so and neither can the school be impelled to allow it.


It looks like the school is required to allow him to pray. (I don't know how reliable this source is.)

Quote:
1. THE CLINTON DIRECTIVE

U.S. President Bill Clinton instructed Education Secretary Richard Riley to provide every school district in the United States with a statement of principles in 1995.

This statement discusses how far religious expression and activity are allowed in public schools.

Some of the important aspects of this statement of concern and interest to Muslim students and their parents are:

a. STUDENT PRAYER
Students can take part in individual and group prayer during the school day. They can also pray in a "nondisruptive manner" when they are not participating in school activities or are being taught.


b. RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION
In "informal" settings like cafeterias and hallways, they can pray and discuss their religious views. They can even persuade peers about religious topics like they would political topics. But school officials should step in to stop any speech that is considered harassment aimed at a student or a group of students.

c. RULES FOR SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS AND TEACHERS
School administrators and teachers, when acting in those capacities, are not allowed soliciting or encouraging religious activity and are prohibited from participating in this kind of activity with students.

They are also not allowed to discourage an activity because it is religious, nor can they solicit or encourage anti-religious activity.

-snip-

g. RELIGIOUS EXCUSALS
While this is subject to state laws that apply, schools can excuse individual students from lessons which are objectionable to the student or their parents on religious grounds. However, school officials cannot encourage or discourage students of taking advantage of this option.

h. RELIGIOUS DRESS
Schools cannot stop students from wearing head scarves or other clothing related to religious practice under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Students can also have religious messages on clothing in the same way they are allowed to display non-religious messages on clothing.

-snip-

2. FROM THE FREEDOM FORUM FIRST AMENDMENT CENTER'S "A PARENT'S GUIDE TO RELIGION IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS"

a. PRAYING TOGETHER
Students are permitted to pray alone or in groups, as long as the activity is not disruptive and doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

These activities have to be voluntary and initiated by the students. Students do not have the right to force a "captive audience" to participate in religious exercises.


http://www.soundvision.com/Info/education/pubschool/pub.free.asp

(Emphasis mine.)

Here's the Religious Freedom Restoration Act:

http://prop1.org/legal/rfra.htm

OK, but it was struck down in '97:

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/rfra2.htm

Hmm, I just got tired of researching for now. Thought it would be more straightforward. Joe, this is your field... do you KNOW that schools can't be so impelled? If so, can you point me to the law saying so?

Thanks.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:40 pm
Things may have changed under Bush the Younger.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:41 pm
The site that I quoted from was last updated today. So according to them, that's all current. Just not sure if they are right.
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rufio
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:41 pm
I'm sure this applies only to public schools. If this school is allowed to have any sort of dress code, it will be allowed to restrict religious clothing as well.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:44 pm
Ah. Found more on the RFRA -- was reborn, stalled, and a more specific version was passed:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rfra3.htm

That version doesn't seem to cover schools, just a land use part and a part that is "To guarantee that institutionalized persons (prisoners, and persons in mental or medical institutions) retain freedom of religious expression."
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:46 pm
Oh, but Oklahoma has one!

Quote:
Oklahoma: Governor Keating signed the Oklahoma Religious Freedom Act into law in early 2000-JUN. Richard Fenn, associate director of Public Affairs and Religious Liberty for the Seventh-day Adventist Church worldwide commented: "This is a significant development. Americans are taking action to protect our country's most precious freedom-the right to worship according to the dictates of conscience." The Oklahoma Senate added amendments to the bill that diluted the protection guaranteed to convicts and to churches involved in land zoning disputes. 7


http://www.religioustolerance.org/rfra2.htm
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:54 pm
(Had the wrong Joe up there... was thinking it was joefromchicago when it was Joe Nation.)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 08:56 pm
So, what happens to this Muslim girl's rights to wear a scarf?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 09:46 pm
Hmmm - sometimes great unfairness is committed in the name of fairness. Is there not a spirit of fairness, rather than a stale holy writ?

(I get your point, Craven....but...)
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 09:49 pm
Craven de Kere wrote:
Yes, I have one with and one without.


Try putting a headscarf on the one "without"!
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2003 10:47 pm
Making someone remove a hat is hardly great unfairness.

I can put a scarf on the nice cat anytime. She is very docile. But I do that to the mean one because when she gets it off she is very nice.
0 Replies
 
 

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