Back to agreeing with Craven.
From a 24 yo Iraqi female:
Wednesday, October 01, 2003
Cousins and Veils...
This is some further commentary on John Tierney's article "Iraq Family Ties Complicate American Efforts for Change", printed in the New York Times.
(BTW, thanks to "jd" for the following tip- for people who don't wish to register with New York Times, the username/password mediajunkie/mediajunkie can be used to access articles.)
"A key purpose of veiling is to prevent outsiders from competing with a woman's cousins for marriage," Dr. Kurtz said. "Attack veiling, and you are attacking the core of the Middle Eastern social system."
Thank you Stanley Kurtz, anthropologist at the Hoover Institution.
He took hundreds of years of wearing the veil for religious reasons and relegated it all to the oppression of females by their male cousins. Wow- human nature is that simple.
I can see the image now- my cousins roaming the opening of our cave, holding clubs and keeping a wary eye on the female members of their clan
and us cowed, frightened females all gathered in groups, murmuring behind our veils
I have a question: why is Dr. Kurtz using the word ?'veil' in relation to Iraq? Very, very few females wore veils or burqas prior to the occupation. Note that I say ?'veil' or ?'burqa'. If Dr. Kurtz meant the general ?'hijab' or headscarf worn on the hair by millions of Muslim females instead of an actual ?'veil' then he should have been more specific. While a ?'veil' in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan is quite common, in Iraq it speaks of extremism. It is uncommon because the majority of moderate Muslim clerics believe it is unnecessary.
A ?'veil' is a piece of cloth that covers the whole face and head. It is called a ?'veil' in English and called a ?'burgu3' (burqa), ?'khimar', or ?'pushi' in Iraq. The khimar or burqa either covers the whole face, or covers it all with the exception of the eyes.
The standard ?'hijab' or ?'rabta' is a simple headscarf that covers the hair and neck, and can be worn in a variety of ways. The majority of ?'covered' females in Iraq wear a simple hijab. Some fashionable females wear a turban-like head cover and something with a high collar that generally serves the same purpose. The hijab can be any color. Some women prefer white, others black and I have friends who own every color and design imaginable and look so good, it almost seems more like a fashion statement than a religious one.
The ?'abaya', on the other hand, is a long, cloak-like garment and is more traditional, than it is religious. Although designs vary, the abaya is similar in style to the standard graduation robe- long, wide and flowing. Some abayas are designed to cover the head, and others are made only to wear on the shoulders. Men, as well as women, wear abayas. The feminine abayas are often black and may have some sort of design on them. Male abayas are plain, with perhaps some simple embroidery along the edges and are brown, black, gray, beige or khaki. Abayas are often worn in Iraq, although the younger generations don't like them- I haven't worn one yet.
The hijab can be worn with ordinary clothing- skirts, shirts and pants as long as they are ?'appropriate'. The skirt should be somewhat long, the shirt a little bit loose and the sleeves should be below the elbows and, if worn with pants, a bit long. The purpose of the hijab is to protect females from sexual harassment. It acts as a sort of safeguard against ogling and uninvited attention.
Muslim females do not wear a hijab or veil because their male cousins *make* them wear it. They wear it for religious reasons. I personally don't wear a hijab or headscarf, but I know many females who do- in Baghdad, in Mosul, in Najaf, in Kerbela, in Falloojeh
in Jordan, in Syria, in Lebanon, in Saudi Arabia
and *none* of these females wear a headscarf because their *cousins* make them wear it. They wear the headscarf out of a conviction that it is the correct thing to do and out of the comfort and security it gives them. Cousins have nothing to do with it and Dr. Kurtz's very simplistic explanation is an insult.
Dr. Kurtz would have better said, "Attack the headscarf or the hijab and you are attacking the core of the Middle Eastern social system because the majority of the Middle East is Muslim and the headscarf is considered a required part of Islam by a huge number of Muslims." Attacking the hijab would be the equivalent of attacking a Christian's right to wear a cross, or a Jew's right to wear a yarmulke
I support the school.
Exceptions for the girl will snowball into exceptions for others...
One rule fits all.
I wonder how bad the gang situation there is. I knew some schools where I grew up where if you wore a head scarf of any sort to school, it was going to be horribly misconstrued by someone depending on what color it was. Religion is one thing, but if there was an actual danger associated with wearing such a thing, I could understand that the school would rather be responsible for removing a traditional religious garment than for having her hurt or killed because they let her wear it. These things aren't always caused by bureaucracy. Of course, we don't the specifics, and that would make all the difference.
What I am confused on, mostly, is, if she knew the rules before, and if she did, why she did address the issue with the school earlier. Also, if it took them 2 weeks to see that she was wearing it, especially since supposedly no one else was, it must be a pretty poorly-run school. It seems like they need a lot more than dress codes there.
Bill of rights
1st amendment
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Deny the right to practice a religion and you deny yourself that same right.
The teacher missed the mark by not taking the opportunity to introduce the rest of the class to a small part of the world they soon shall venture into .....
Gel-
You seem to want to establish one religion over another. Yarmulkes aren't allowed, hats with Jesus fish aren't allowed... why should this girl/this religion be above the rules?
So - if it is only the gang thing - since when did a headscarf worn by a Muslim woman look like a gang one? Yarmulkes look like gang things? I covered the dangerous or illegal stuff.
If it is religious - You gonna make Plymouth sistren cut their hair? Their long hair is a religious badge - as are their nerdy dresses - you gonna make them wear cool clothes? And make-up?
What about Sikhs? They gonna have to cut THEIR hair? Ditto - it is a hairy fish hat.
You could hide knives in that hair, too.
Muslim scarf, 1, 2, 3, 4.....yarmulkes, 1, 2, 3, 4......Sikh's headdress, 1, 2, 3, 4...... Where's the interruption in the education? Where's the violence? Where's the danger of gangs? Teacher: Muslim women wear scarves because.....Jews wear yarmulkes because......Sikh's wear a headdress because....... Learning about different religions. Is that a bad thing? How about the study of the Middle East, Israel, and India? Just leave out those things that conflict with the school's dress code? Are the students allowed to see pictures of those countries?
It is the slippery slope. Is the headscarf REQUIRED by her religious practice or is it recommended? I enjoyed reading the explanation of the differences in headwear (above) and read that the writer, though a devout Muslim, does not cover her head. The covering of the head for women is optional, so too is it with the girl from Oklahoma. She can continue practicing her religion just not all the optional practices. If she has a brother is the school required to allow him to stop and pray five times a day whilst facing Mecca? No, he's not required to do so and neither can the school be impelled to allow it.
:wink: I do think all Christians should be required to wear hats with fish on them, then when they act in an unChristlike manner everyone can yell "hypocrite" at them.
For those who are blissfully ignorant of stupid zero-tolerance American public school rules--
The Important Well Thought Out Anti-Drug Rule:
No drugs allowed on school campus.
An asthmatic girl has a breathing crisis, and her inhaler malfunctions!
Her boyfriend has the same asthma problem, and the same inhaler.
He saves her life, by sharing his inhaler!
He is expelled, and the school may press charges.
He broke the rule.
The Important Well Thought Out Anti-Weapons Rule:
No weapons are allowed on campus.
A kid's mother packs him a lunch of Cubed Steak.
She places a knife in his lunch box.
A piece of **** kid spies said knife, as it is used to cut Cubed Steak at lunch.
Kid is expelled, and faced charges.
He broke the rule.
With obscene crap like this going on at school, I am completely unconcerned about some kid wanting to wear a scarf to school.
Either trash the dress code, take off the damn scarf, or go to a school that doesn't have a rule about scarves. Meanwhile, apply some sense to these stupid rules.
Sofia wrote:Gel-
You seem to want to establish one religion over another. Yarmulkes aren't allowed, hats with Jesus fish aren't allowed... why should this girl/this religion be above the rules?
Busted
... I feel that everyone should worship the 'cosmic muffin''
What if two things
#1 .. The teacher created the disturbance by calling attention to the scarf? Did the teachr explain to the class just why the scarf was objectionable, or did the teacher leave the 11 yo minds to imagine?
#2 ... There are laws and there are just laws.
I go back to the days of the mini skirt ..... talk about distraction .... no one got suspended.
Dress code when I was in high school--
Boys could not wear sandals.
Boys had to have their shirts tucked in.
Bras couldn't show.
They have just instituted a heinous dress code at my daughter's school. All tops and pants must be solid colors, but not the same color
All shirts must be tucked in. (Poor fat people!)
No body jewelry except earrings.
(Daughter has to take her nose ring out for bitchy fifth period teacher.)
Belts can't have studs.
No 'unnatural' hair colors!!! (What about the blue-haired librarian!!!?)
This isn't congress, this is school. The school can make any rules it wants to about the way its students dress and act. You have no rights in school. That's about it.
Depending on where you live, just about anything can make you a target for someone. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it works. The school doesn't want to be responsible for bad things happening, and they consider gang fights to be worse than having to remove an article of religious clothing for 6 hours a day.
Edit: for the record, I think dress codes are stupid 90% of the time, but there may be valid reasons for having them every once in a while.
You should see some of the get-ups at my uni.
Usually the worst dressed are the academics. By biology professor last year didn't have slightest idea of dress sense.
dlowan wrote:So - if it is only the gang thing - since when did a headscarf worn by a Muslim woman look like a gang one? Yarmulkes look like gang things? I covered the dangerous or illegal stuff.
If it is religious - You gonna make Plymouth sistren cut their hair? Their long hair is a religious badge - as are their nerdy dresses - you gonna make them wear cool clothes? And make-up?
What about Sikhs? They gonna have to cut THEIR hair? Ditto - it is a hairy fish hat.
It's not only a gang thing. Dress codes exist for many reasons. I referenced the gang dress as only one facet of why one particular rule (no sports team logos) exist. It has nothing to do with the no headwear rule.
The no headwear rule is IMO a less important one. It's like the no gum rule.
I think what a lot of adults here forget is how many rules there are in school.
There are rules against having anything of value.
There are rules against having anything for communication (cell phones and beepers).
There are rules against having video games and music players.
There are rules against going to the bathroom without permission.
There are rules requiring students to wear an ID pinned on their shirt.
Etc etc.
One of the main goals of the dress code is conformity. Americans don't like that word but american schools try to make kids conform for a reason. The study MUCH better and behave MUCH better with methods such as a dress code or uniforms. Attitude, individuality and expression in America are at a worldwide high. IMO the anti-conform people don't realize how individualistic American culture hurts us.
American schools seem downright oppressive and oddly enough are not nearly as well behaved as schools in natiosn with less repressive rules.
IMO the schools should be much smaller, spend less money of frivolous stuff like cheerleading and stadiums for sport and then they can relax some of the rules as they would have a smaller group with less complexity and impersonal dealings as they would be able to hire more teachers per student.
My school had a much simpler code
Poodle skirts and angora sweaters for the girls
bibs and whatever for the guys;)
Bookbags must be plastic or mesh. Better to see your uzi, my dear.
