13
   

This Makes Me Sick

 
 
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:05 pm
pussy, pussy, pussy why did we oust the repubs when they obviously still run things?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32437468/ns/politics-white_house/
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Type: Discussion • Score: 13 • Views: 3,163 • Replies: 82

 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 12:15 pm
Yep, I agree with you here Bear-- if it turns out this way.

Let's give Obama a little benefit of the doubt-- don't rule out the possibility that you might see a masterful political move, a pivot that ends up with a public option.

If we don't get a public option, I will be pissed.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 02:48 pm
@ebrown p,
I certainly don't rule out the possibility that Obama's many assurances about other aspects of his program and intentions are also duplicitous "masterful political moves". I suspect many others see the situation that way as well. That is what is behind much of the growing hostility to his plans.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 03:05 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
That is what is behind much of the growing hostility to his plans.


Bull!

The only thing behind the "growing hostility" to his plans is right-wing idiocy of knuckle-draggers can't bring themselves to admit that a black man is their leader-- harnessed by well-funded health industry hacks supported by Fox News.

Obama is far from duplicitous. His job is to be president (and he is president even of the idiots who hate him). It is our job to take on the well-orchestrated "angry mob (tm)". The president is a politician, so don't get upset when he does his job.

georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 03:26 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
That is what is behind much of the growing hostility to his plans.


Bull!

The only thing behind the "growing hostility" to his plans is right-wing idiocy of knuckle-draggers can't bring themselves to admit that a black man is their leader-- harnessed by well-funded health industry hacks supported by Fox News.



If that is your view, you are entitled to it ! It does seem worthy of you.

However, I think you are in for a few surprises.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 04:21 pm
He's guaranteed himself a one term presidency that's for sure.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 04:23 pm
@Bi-Polar Bear,
Wanna bet Bear? (Didn't you guarantee that Obama would never win the primary before you guaranteed he could never beat McCain?)

Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 04:33 pm
@ebrown p,
10.00. we're on.and that's if he lies down on healthcare. If you accept those terms I'll bet. If I lose and we keep repubs out of office I'll consider it money well spent. But I think the dems are disorganized pussies.

They won the election because virtually anyone could have won after 8 years of bush/
0 Replies
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 05:24 am
Yes, will be very interesting to see if the Dems can hold any kind of coalition together without the public option. But if they fail to do so, they will effectively destroy their own chances for any long term stay in power, either in the Presidency or Congress. Did somebody say "waterloo"?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 08:30 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
I agree wholeheartedly, when the going gets tough, they always cave in and it appears Obama is no different. He said it just a sliver of the health care reform but I dont' agree and I doubt many of those wishing for true health care reform will either.

Quote:
The former Vermont governor was asked on NBC's "Meet the Press" about President Barack Obama's statement over the weekend that the public option for insurance coverage was "just a sliver" of the overall proposal. Obama's health and human services secretary, Kathleen Sebelius, advanced that line, telling CNN Sunday that a direct government role in a system intended to provide virtually universal coverage was "not the essential element."

Dean, a physician, argued that a public option is fair and said there must be such a choice in any genuine shake up of the existing system.

"You can't really do health reform without it," he said. Dean maintained that the health insurance industry has "put enormous pressure on patients and doctors" in recent years.

He called a direct government role "the entirety of health care reform. It isn't the entirety of insurance reform ... We shouldn't spend $60 billion a year subsidizing the insurance industry."

Dean also said he doesn't foresee any Republican support for a public option. "I don't think the Republicans are interested and in order to have a bipartisan bill, you've got to have both sides interested," he said.

The shift in the administration's stance on a government-run insurance program leaves open a chance for compromise with Republicans that probably would enrage Obama's liberal supporters but could deliver a much-needed victory on a top domestic priority.

Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., who is co-chairman of the Middle Class Caucus, said that "leaving private insurance companies the job of controlling the costs of health care is like making a pyromaniac the fire chief."


source

I would rather go down in flames than compromisig on the very thing that would truly make a difference in health care reform.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 10:30 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
I'm not sure what's here to make you sick. Compromise is all part of the American political process.

Weren't you one of the folks really pissed off when Bush ran roughshod over all opposition?
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 10:34 am
@DrewDad,
When you compromise on the main thrust of the bill, at the end of the day what do you have left?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 10:37 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Compromise is all part of the American political process.


I am not sure what this statement means. I certainly disagree with it in this case (and many other cases in history).

There are plenty of cases where compromise is a bad thing-- particularly when you have the political support to do the right thing without compromise.

0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 10:41 am
Bush wouldn't have compromised.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 10:41 am
The following copy and paste article explains why Obama caving at the public option is sickening as bear put it.

Quote:
President Obama has now essentially killed the public option for health care reform. Though Obama clearly and unmistakably said previously that there would be a public option, he's since reneged on that promise (like he's done on numerous other issues).

Without a government-administered public option, any health care reform legislation will worsen health care in this country. This was the ONLY part of the legislation that had any potential to "bend-the-cost-curve."

Now insurers will receive the huge windfall of mandated health insurance enrollment for another 50 million Americans, without any competition from a non-profit driven government-administered program.

The Obama Administration is fully aware that a public option could be implemented without extensive government control, and without tremendous costs. But by imposing additional rules that currently don't exist, Obama gave public-option opponents (mainly the insurance industry and its shills) all the ammunition they needed to label this as "government-run" health care.

Some of the inclusions in the legislation"both vague general goals and certain specifics"helped torpedo the public option.

Requiring that any insurance, and any public option, offer the same coverage that Congress receives bolsters the claim that this really is "government-run" health care. Though I don't agree that this constitutes government-run health care, I certainly see how it might be used to support such claims.

Mandating too many specific benefits is problematic as well. It too makes it appear that government really will be controlling health care. Though I don't share that view, I can certainly see how this could be used to support such claims.

Had Obama and his supporters simply removed some of the most overbearing of those rules--such as the payment of doctors for end-of-life care counseling and panels to determine what treatments were most cost effective"the public option could have easily survived. Its opponents simply would not have had the ammunition needed to label it as "government-controlled health care," enraging the public as a result.

Now discussion is taking place to remove some of these same overbearing provisions, such as payment for end-of-life care counseling.

But now it's too late. Much of the public has been convinced by insurance industry propagandists and their dupes that the current legislation is government-controlled health care.

Any legislation put forward now will be nothing but Corporate Welfare for the health care insurance industry, with Big Pharma tagging along.

Without the public option, health care reform legislation will be nothing more than an extension of the Bush Administration's no-corporation-left-behind policies. By subsidizing the health care industry with public money, Obama is proving that even the most profitable of all industries can feed at the public trough"and share in the same taxpayer-funded largess that the financial industry currently enjoys.





source

What is more he is caving on the one issue most of the public supported in this reform bill just so that republicans might support it I guess.

Quote:
A majority of Americans are in favor of having a public, or government-run, option in the US health care system as proposed by President Barack Obama, a poll showed Tuesday.

Fifty-two percent of 2,276 US adults surveyed online by Harris Interactive between July 9 and 13 said they were in favor of a government-run health plan, while just 30 percent were against.




source
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 10:51 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
I would agree with your charge of pussiness if it was John Edwards or Hillary Clinton acting like that. After all, the latter two had always made a clear commitment to a full-featured universal healthcare system, complete with mandates and everything. Obama, by contrast, was always lukewarm about the whole thing. First he hesitated to present a specific reform plan at all, tackling the topic with inspiring speeches instead. Then, when he finally did come out with a plan, it was full of loopholes and little inconsistencies that made no sense in terms of making the system work, but seemed designed to appease moderate Republicans. The problem, then, isn't that Obama is a pussy. The problem is that he was never that into universal healthcare to begin with. He was into being the all-American, post-partisan, feel-good candidate.

At their 2008 convention, Democrats had a clear choice in this matter. They should have been careful what they wished for, for now they've got it.
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 11:17 am
@Thomas,
I disagree, he had always been big on the public option until just recently as this weekend. As far as Hillary, I seriously doubt she would have even this far, McCain would not have even have brought it up. Obama is still the best of the choices we had, don't mean I am not disappointed in a lot of ways so far.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 11:38 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
The only thing behind the "growing hostility" to his plans is right-wing idiocy of knuckle-draggers can't bring themselves to admit that a black man is their leader-- harnessed by well-funded health industry hacks supported by Fox News.

Just when I thought I knew the breadth of your stupidity ...
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 11:49 am
@ebrown p,
Why are you playing the race card here? Isn't it plausible that conservatives are just their usual anti-social/government program selves?
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Aug, 2009 12:04 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Come on....

These people who think that Obama is going to kill Sarah Palin's baby are the same people who think Obama was born in Kenya (in a 40 year plot to put a Muslim in the White House).

Now they are running around screaming at meetings and spray-painting swastikas.

This goes far beyond being anti-government or anti-social.
 

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