This Makes Me Sick

@ebrown p,

October 23, 2008

Neal Boortz wrote:

Quote:

Now let's consider the next four years under President Obama. He is certainly going to introduce ideas and pursue policies that are pure poison to many Americans; especially achievement-oriented self-sufficient citizens. Whenever anyone dares to utter a word in opposition to any Obama position or initiative you can be sure that there is going to be someone waiting close by to start screaming "racist!" By the end of Obama's first year in the White House virtually every white American will have been called a racist for one reason or another. So, what else is new?

Nice crystal ball he has there.

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@ebrown p,

I can see the appeal of viewing your political opposition that way, but I think it's inordinately simplistic, if self-satisfying.

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Given that Americans have largely bought the "government is bad" argument despite the lack of facts and logic of that argument, the government run option is not worth fighting for. NGO run healthcare could work almost as well. The trick will be to regulate these NGO's in a way that makes it difficult for the profit seeking monolith known as the health insurance industry to co-opt them.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

And just who will regulate this NGO ?? Perhaps Henry Waxman and Chris Dodd?

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@georgeob1,

free markets don't need no regulation. I remember well my time in the military where regulations and authority were considered namby-pamby and limited to ROTC warriors. skid marks in the sky beats skid marks on the deck every time.

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@georgeob1,

DEFINITION OF NGOs

A non-governmental organization (NGO) is any non-profit, voluntary citizens' group which is organized on a local, national or international level. Task-oriented and driven by people with a common interest, NGOs perform a variety of service and humanitarian functions, bring citizen concerns to Governments, advocate and monitor policies and encourage political particpation through provision of information. Some are organized around specific issues, such as human rights, environment or health. They provide analysis and expertise, serve as early warning mechanisms and help monitor and implement international agreements. Their relationship with offices and agencies of the United Nations system differs depending on their goals, their venue and the mandate of a particular institution.

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

These people who think that Obama is going to kill Sarah Palin's baby are the same people who think Obama was born in Kenya (in a 40 year plot to put a Muslim in the White House).

If you search the web for the combination "Clarence Thomas" and "nigger", you will find that conservatives don't hold a monopoly on playing the race card when they disagree with someone's politics. Liberals are happy to do it, too. It's poor style in both cases. (At least in the subculture I identify with. You're a moral relativist and I'm a polite man, so far be it from me to cram my values down your throat. Razz

)

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Thomas your old world charm makes me feel like Lil Abner....

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@Thomas,

Your claiming a moral equivalency that doesn't match with reality.

The liberal wackos (and sure, with Google you can find them)... but they are on the fringe.

The Conservative wackos are the base. Look at these household names

Glen Beck who claims that Obama "hates white people" in a household name with a Fox news show.

Michelle Bachmann; A US Representative who claims Obama is a Muslim and that liberals should be investigated for being "anti-american".

Add Tancredo (who wants to bomb Mecca), Sarah Palin who thinks Democrats are going to kill her baby. ... and we haven't even gotten to Limbaugh yet. And the prominent voices hinting at armed rebellion.

Sure you can find examples of wacko liberals if you look really hard enough.

But to claim that, right now, there is anything equal to the rabid, militant, paranoid, conspiracy-theory crazy being spread by elected officials and prominent media personalities.

There is no equivalence here.

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@DrewDad,

How can government, using its law-making authority create an NGO that satisfies this definition?

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@ebrown p,

Oh, I see. The main constituents of liberal or left wing or Democrat politics in this country are composed of intelligent, reasonable people, who respect the freedoms and differing opinions of others and wish only good for all of us. The corresponding mass of conservative or right wing or Republican folks are "rabid wackos" given to class and racial hatreds; conspiracy theories; and off the wall fantasies.

Where have we seen such demonization of the opposition before?

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Oh, I see. The main constituents of liberal or left wing or Democrat politics in this country are composed of intelligent, reasonable people, who respect the freedoms and differing opinions of others and wish only good for all of us. The corresponding mass of conservative or right wing or Republican folks are "rabid wackos" given to class and racial hatreds; conspiracy theories; and off the wall fantasies.

Where have we seen such demonization of the opposition before?

Where have we seen such blatant Straw Man arguments before? Really.

As for the 'rabid wacko' arguments, how many left-wingers showed up at presidential events, to protest Bush and his policies, with assualt weapons or handguns?

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/assets_c/2009/08/nerdy-gun-guy-cropped-proto-custom_1.jpg

Right wingers are doing so in increasing numbers... what message is that designed to send, George?

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Where have we seen such demonization of the opposition before?

Cycloptichorn

It is you and e brown p who are making the straw man arguments here: not me.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Where have we seen such demonization of the opposition before?

Cycloptichorn

It is you and e brown p who are making the straw man arguments here: not me.

You quoted me incorrectly; I didn't make the statement you quoted me as making above.

However, you most certainly did make a straw man argument:

Quote:

Oh, I see. The main constituents of liberal or left wing or Democrat politics in this country are composed of intelligent, reasonable people, who respect the freedoms and differing opinions of others and wish only good for all of us. The corresponding mass of conservative or right wing or Republican folks are "rabid wackos" given to class and racial hatreds; conspiracy theories; and off the wall fantasies.

That is not what Ebrown said at all, and you know it. He said that your leadership is full of extreme folks, whereas you can't really say that about the Democrats at all.

When you substitute someone's actual arguments for the one you want to respond to instead, that's a classic straw man. But of course, you knew that you were committing a logical fallacy while you were writing it; it just sounded satisfying to you to say at the time. Right?

Cycloptichorn

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

Oh, I see. The main constituents of liberal or left wing or Democrat politics in this country are composed of intelligent, reasonable people, who respect the freedoms and differing opinions of others and wish only good for all of us. The corresponding mass of conservative or right wing or Republican folks are "rabid wackos" given to class and racial hatreds; conspiracy theories; and off the wall fantasies.

How do you explain the use of Nazi imagery by conservatives, the thinly veiled calls to armed violence (e.g. "we may need to use our second amendment rights") and the prominence of folks like Glen Beck who say --"Obama hates white people".

Do you at least agree that painting swastikas on Congressional offices is a bit extreme?

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@ebrown p,

For the record... I am not at all complaining. I am a strong supporter of the First Amendment.

I am just saying that using the antics of Conservatives for our own political gain is fair play. Come 2010 (and beyond), rest assured that the "conservatives are extremists" theme will be a consistent theme (and with the images of screaming conservatives spraying saliva at meetings, it will be a easy message to get across).

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Your claiming a moral equivalency that doesn't match with reality.

I'm not claiming moral equivalence. But two wrongs don't make a right, and I think you committed a wrong: You accused people of racism for no documented reason except their sin of disagreeing with your politics. (If you have any evidence that opponents of universal healthcare are merely "knuckle-draggers [who] can't bring themselves to admit that a black man is their leader", you haven't shown it.) To repeat myself, I think that's poor style.

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
Oh, I see. The main constituents of liberal or left wing or Democrat politics in this country are composed of intelligent, reasonable people, who respect the freedoms and differing opinions of others and wish only good for all of us. The corresponding mass of conservative or right wing or Republican folks are "rabid wackos" given to class and racial hatreds; conspiracy theories; and off the wall fantasies.

How do you explain the use of Nazi imagery by conservatives, the thinly veiled calls to armed violence (e.g. "we may need to use our second amendment rights") and the prominence of folks like Glen Beck who say --"Obama hates white people".

Do you at least agree that painting swastikas on Congressional offices is a bit extreme?

Well, let's put it this way. I don't do the large number of people whose political views are different from mine the great disservice of saying they are angry, intolerant, narrow-minded bigots such as yourself.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

I don't do the large number of people whose political views are different from mine the great disservice of saying they are angry, intolerant, narrow-minded bigots such as yourself.

Read this over a couple of times... it gets funnier each time.

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@Thomas,

My quip about how they "can't bring themselves to admit that a black man is their leader" was a reference to the Obama birth certificate conspiracy theory. In my mind (seeing as there is so much documentation and since no other president has every been questioned this way) the assumption that this is due to racism is not too far-fetched.

These are the same people who are

1) Disrupting meetings between congress members and constituents.
2) Making absurd claims about death panels and Euthanasia.
3) Claiming that public run health care (similar to the ones in England or Germany) is a form of Nazism.
4) Talking about armed resistance to the government.

These things are not from the fringe, they are being done with support from media personalities and even elected leaders.

1 Reply

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