27
   

Some idiots actually think the NFL is wrong for giving Vick a 2nd chance.

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 04:41 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Hawkeye there is something very evil and very sick in the "soul" of a man who could do what Vick had done
Killing for sport is a very normal human behaviour....I dont have much of a problem with killing animals for sport. I do have objections to killing humans for sport however.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 04:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
Sport?????

Killing dogs slowly and painfully have anything to do with sport............?
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 04:49 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Killing dogs slowly and painfully have anything to do with sport............?
torturing animals is another story...I must admit that I am not enough aware of the facts of this case to say if Vick did this, but am going off of the general objection at the time was that he was responsible for the killing of large numbers of dogs, something that is not much of a problem in my books.

EDIT: OK, looked through three pages of Google but can find no specifics on the torture claim, I assume that it comes from fighting dogs till the death, which is not torture in my books. At least on Earth such is life, life on earth is very often ended by another life.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 04:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
Yes - I have trouble with traditional 'sports' like bullfighting (which I read was brought to Spain from Italy in the 1700's by (if I remember) a fellow named Mendoza who had seen such being acted out in Siena's Campo. That campo is also the scene for the famous palio races, notably difficult for the horses. Then there is cock fighting. Of course, there is also hunting for sport trophies. Or for reputed aphrodisiacal body parts. And a friend who was captain on a rent-a-yacht (or some huge boat) was appalled when the wealthy sportsmen used bats to play baseball with the fish. (He quit). Animals being "other" is culturally common.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:07 pm
@ossobuco,
The whole thing has already gotten ridiculous, where we now are not supposed to raise food animals because we are told that we should be vegetarians, and that if we must then they should be raised and loved as if they are pets.

If people want to pay 2-5 times more for protein that has been raised according to their ethics fine by me, but dont make a law about it, dont force me to conform to your ethics at my expense.

Chickens and eggs are about to get much more expensive do to standards being imposed upon farmers.
snood
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:07 pm
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:

I believe in the system. (we kinda have to)

I'm no personal fan of Mike Vick's. (I'm no hater either)

until such time that he behaves improperly, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. he has done everything asked of him. and more, I believe in some cases.

would I let him watch my dog? no.

do I think he should have a letter branded on his forehead? no.

I am hopeful that he has hit bottom, and found a way to become a positive force in life.


we'll see.


(I have no hope left for Mr Cheney...)


Well said, Rockhead. Don't want him around my pets, but have to accept him at face value until and unless he does something else. It seems like the only reasonable take on this.

Finn, Jesus. Of course you're "allowed" to dislike him. - what does that even mean? I don't have a warm fuzzy about the guy myself.
ossobuco
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:12 pm
@ossobuco,
I'm not saying I'm FOR all those 'sports', I'm saying humans not taking animals and their pain seriously is very common. It's not just Vick's group.

I do have some understanding of the cultural backgrounds for the palio and bull fighting (which I've seen twice, Dominguin and El Cordobes), but they do bother me re the use of animal pain for human gratification.

And no, I'm not a vegetarian. I would like many of the factory farms raising animals for food to shape up. We can eat less of it and do better healthwise and ecologically.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:27 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
I'm saying humans not taking animals and their pain seriously is very common.
Been common in the West for about 2000 years, ever since Christianity rubbed out the earth religions...The belief that the protecting the welfare of the Animal was critical to a successful life was one the the primary reasons the American Indian was deemed to be an inferior human. Things have changed a lot, even just in my lifetime.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
That is one of the things I appreciate about the Amerind cultures.

I was thinking of some bits of christianity on that (the bits ill defined in my mind as I type) and also thinking of the probably worldwide practice of yore and maybe somewhere now as well - of humans sacrificing animals to appease or beg the gods of whatever era.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
where we now are not supposed to raise food animals because we are told that we should be vegetarians, and that if we must then they should be raised and loved as if they are pets.


Killing food animals/game animals humanely as possible is one damn thing taking the one type of animal that recent research studies have even indicated that we had co-evolved with and have them kill and cripple each others and when you are done with them kill them slowly and cruelty is a horse of another color indeed.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:40 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
probably worldwide of humans sacrificing animals to appease or beg the gods of whatever era.


Along with throwing your own infants into the fire for the same purpose as the Carthages are suppose to had done.

ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:42 pm
@BillRM,
Yes, ugh. I hadn't known or at least hadn't remembered that the Carthaginians were said to do that.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 05:47 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Yes, ugh. I hadn't known or at least hadn't remembered that the Carthaginians were said to do that.


Do not forget it was the Romans who said this so who know for sure.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 06:28 pm
This will be a touchy comment, and I don't mean by it that I can't like individual sport hunters - my father, for example, whom I post about near reverentially - but I have trouble even imagining shooting a bird out of the sky for fun.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 06:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
No, that was about how they killed the animals who were wounded or otherwise non fight worthy. I've no links but it was widely reported at the time. I read whether Vick was there or not, but don't remember if he was. Maybe I read he was there once. Perhaps I don't remember because that was contentious re validation, or I don't remember because I forget. Anyway, the torture is the bold face of dismissing animals and their sentience as worthy of consideration. The glee involved with that can be a serious indicator of mental disturbance. Or, the routine flush from shooting a bird.

(I read fast and my retention suffers. My ex husband used to read slowly, but remembered virtually all he read and was able to analyse it years later. Viva la differance.)
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Jan, 2011 07:44 pm
I've said my say. Have a nice day.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2011 04:58 pm
@ossobuco,
Sandy Bank's point of view, here -
(she's an LA Times columnist):

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-banks-20110104,0,3853904,full.column

I think it's worth reading, but, hey.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2011 05:49 pm
@Brandon9000,
Amen brandon
edgarblythe
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2011 05:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
What, is brandon suddenly a priest?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2011 05:59 pm
@snood,
I don't think he's beyond redemption, I just don't buy that he's truly seeking it.

The legal system punished him as it saw fit. I think he got off lightly, but that's neither here nor there. He paid his legal dues. I'm not suggesting that he be legally punished further, but I'm certainly not required to believe his moral slate has been wiped clean or to wish him well.
0 Replies
 
 

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