I FEEL A LITTLE SORRY FOR MJ's M.D.

Im afraid Dave doesnt get the point.

Granted that it is the job of an M.D. to keep his patient alive,
but presumably MJ put a lot of presure on him to administer
that sleep drug. There 's a pretty good chance that he explained
the risks to MJ.

Quote:

Granted that it is the job of an M.D. to keep his patient alive,
but presumably MJ put a lot of presure on him to administer
that sleep drug. There 's a pretty good chance that he explained
the risks to MJ.

Would you reconsider the wording of this post now?
In light of a real doctors duty to the patient,
it includes the canon of ethics, Hippocrates above statement,
and license requirements in the state in which Murry was practicing.

I guess being contaminated by so many lawyers in my career,
I begin to understand your belief that everything is arbitrary.
I reject it, but I understand.

Above all else--do no harm, do you recall that ?

Propofol is a drug that reduces anxiety and tension, and promotes relaxation and sleep or loss of consciousness. Propofol provides loss of awareness for short diagnostic tests and surgical procedures, sleep at the beginning of surgery, and supplements other types of general anesthetics.

Upon the basis of the limited amount of indications that have been
forthcoming, and subject to amendment in the face of new evidence,
if I were on that jury, or if I were the judge in a bench trial,
I 'm inclined to take the vu that mercy is the better part of wisdom
in this case -- that MJ assumed the risk.

If that is indeed how the facts laid out, then
I don 't see that MJ cries out to be avenged.
To put it another way:
if it proves to be the case that the M.D. violated the applicable law,
then in fairness, MJ probably shoud be deemed to have been
a joint conspirator in the plot to do so.
" Ex culpa suo actio, non oritur. "

Yes; I suspect that his patient absolved him of that.

Quote:

Upon the basis of the limited amount of indications that have been
forthcoming, and subject to amendment in the face of new evidence,
if I were on that jury, or if I were the judge in a bench trial,
I 'm inclined to take the vu that mercy is the better part of wisdom
in this case -- that MJ assumed the risk.

If that is indeed how the facts laid out, then
I don 't see that MJ cries out to be avenged.
To put it another way:
if it proves to be the case that the M.D. violated the applicable law,
then in fairness, MJ probably shoud be deemed to have been
a joint conspirator in the plot to do so.
" Ex culpa suo actio, non oritur. "

Quote:

Yes; I suspect that his patient absolved him of that.

Yes, but is that suspicion enough to absolve the doctor of his responsibility in injecting MJ with a substance that proved fatal to him?

And if so, could anyone who is a doctor with prescription writing privileges, in a similar situation, but with a less famous patient - say perhaps a bothersome spouse-then just say, when approached by the judicial system after injecting that person with a similar substance, 'Oh, s/he wanted the drug and absolved me of my professional responsibility to 'first do no harm', so this dead person should bear partial responsibility and in fact, would have waived his/her rights again and demanded continued use of the drug'.

Do you see why it's important that the person who's prescribing the drug and doing the injections must be expected to not only have, but also use, better judgment than the person who's smacked out on the drugs David?

I don 't.
Each of us is the captain of his own ship, including MJ.
Each of us OUTRANKS a mere government
insofar as our own good is concerned, in terms of our natural rights

Hence, as an Individual, if I were on the M.D. 's criminal jury,
I 'd vote to uphold the sovereignty of the Individual
and to SUBORDINATE the usurped power of government.

If his patient applied pressure to him, waiving his rights
and preferring to take his chances to get better sleep,
that 's none of the government 's business. I 'd rather see
officers of government prosecuted for interfering in private matters.

I don 't.
Each of us is the captain of his own ship, including MJ.
Each of us OUTRANKS a mere government
insofar as our own good is concerned, in terms of our natural rights

Yes, I'm in total agreement with this philophy.

Hence, as an Individual, if I were on the M.D. 's criminal jury,
I 'd vote to uphold the sovereignty of the Individual
and to SUBORDINATE the usurped power of government.

Why? Are you in receipt of facts that others of us aren't?

Did Michael Jackson tell the doctor -
'I don't care how dangerous this is to me - and I don't care how much you have to give me-
just give me enough to put me to sleep- even if it might mean forever'?
Is there a letter of some sort that Michael Jackson left?
(I have to admit I've stopped following the case, so I'm sincerely asking- I don't know).

And if he wasn't expecting the doctor to be better able than he himself to monitor
and control the dose so it wouldn't be dangerous to him -
why would he have been paying a doctor when he could have
just accessed the drug on the black market and injected it himself?

If his patient applied pressure to him, waiving his rights
and preferring to take his chances to get better sleep,
that 's none of the government 's business. I 'd rather see
officers of government prosecuted for interfering in private matters.

But how would this play out in a court of law if doctors were absolved of their professional responsibility to actually monitor and control the controlled substances they have access to purely dependent upon WHAT THEY SAY their patients wanted?
Again, what if this doctor's wife were the person who ended up dead? Would you still absolve him of his responsibility because he explained, 'She wanted it - she asked me for it...I explained the risks and she said she didn't care''?

If MJ had contracted for an assisted suicide - so be it -
I'm with you- that 'd have been his business.
Although if the doctor had assisted him in a state where that's illegal - he'd have to face the music.

Because we as laypeople do have to be able to trust that our medical professionals
are not knowingly participating in encouraging and abetting drug addiction and death
by overdose in the general population- don't we?

And if that's what they're doing - do we really want them to have access to all these drugs-
and carte blanche to distribute them, not only as they see fit - but as their DRUG ADDICTED patients desire?

He aided and abetted MJ in his addiction the first time he picked up the needle and injected him.
He sold his personal and professional ethics for 150,000 a month -
which may not be illegal- but he injected someone with a lethal dose
of a controlled substance and that is illegal.

Dr. Conrad Murray needed a big payday when he became Michael Jackson's personal physician last spring.

The Las Vegas cardiologist owed at least $780,000 for settlements against his business, outstanding mortgage payments on his house, delinquent student loans, child support and credit cards. And that doesn't include the $68,000 the distributor of an energy drink says Murray, a one-time business associate, owes for skipping out on payments.

Court records chronicling Murray's woes in Las Vegas, where authorities searched his home this week as part of their manslaughter investigation into Jackson's death, help explain why. Beyond basking in a celebrity's aura, Murray might have jumped at the $150,000-a-month Jackson's promoter was prepared to pay him to keep the star healthy through a series of concerts in London.

Murray hooked on with Jackson in May, as his bleak financial picture threatened to worsen. He already was under court orders to pay more than $363,000 for equipment for his heart clinic and $71,000 in student loans dating to the 1980s, a judgment that hit in April. Two lawsuits claiming he owes $240,000 more for unpaid equipment are pending in Nevada courts.

And Murray had appeared unable or unwilling to settle more modest debts -- a nearly $3,700 judgment for not paying child support and two recent credit card company claims totaling $2,600.

Murray's 5,268-square-foot home near the 18th hole of a golf course offers no refuge -- he's in "pre-foreclosure" after failing to make payments on his $1.66 million loan, records show. He stopped paying the $15,000-per-month mortgage in December and could lose the home by November, said Mary Hunt, the foreclosure officer handling the case for Stewart Title company.

Authorities investigating Jackson's death at his rented Los Angeles mansion believe Murray gave the star a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol to help him sleep, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. Propofol is commonly used for surgeries and is not meant as a sleep agent or to be given in private homes. Because of its potency, only trained anesthesia professionals are supposed to administer it and patients are to be constantly monitored.
Police have not labeled Murray a suspect but have said in search warrants they are seeking evidence he committed manslaughter and prescribed drugs to "an addict," an apparent reference to Jackson.

Murray, 56, has not spoken publicly since Jackson's June 25 death. His lawyer, Ed Chernoff, has said the doctor did not prescribe anything that "should have" killed Jackson.

Neither Jackson nor AEG Live, the promoter for the London concerts, paid Murray for the two months the doctor worked for the pop star, according to Chernoff.

"Dr. Murray has lost the ability to make a living as a result of this investigation," he said. "His hope is he can forestall foreclosure until he can once again begin working as a doctor."

Murray's financial background could become an important part of the case, if prosecutors file charges, said Rebecca Lonergan, a University of Southern California law professor and former federal prosecutor of health care fraud cases.

"It does potentially provide evidence of good motive for financial-based crimes, including prescribing when there is not a medical necessity," she said.

Murray's cresting financial woes fit into a history of money problems. He filed for bankruptcy in California in 1992 and had a string of tax liens from Sacramento and San Bernardino counties as well as Maricopa County, Arizona, between 1993 and 2003.

Several years ago, Murray branched out, striking up a deal with John Thomas, distributor of an energy drink called Pit Bull. Thomas said in 2005 and 2006 Murray had the rights to distribute the drink in Trinidad and Tobago, the Caribbean island nation where Murray lived and worked before coming to the United States in the 1980s to study medicine.

The drink never gained popularity there. Murray paid his bill for a first shipment, then didn't pay for three subsequent shipments, Thomas said.

Though Thomas said Murray owes him $68,000, he remained friendly with the doctor and spoke briefly with him days before Jackson's death, when he invited Murray to the opening of a mixed martial arts gym in Las Vegas. Murray told him he was out of town and wouldn't be able to attend.

"You always think you know a guy," Thomas said. "All the dirt is coming out now."

Why? Are you in receipt of facts that others of us aren't?

Did Michael Jackson tell the doctor -
'I don't care how dangerous this is to me - and I don't care how much you have to give me-
just give me enough to put me to sleep- even if it might mean forever'?
Is there a letter of some sort that Michael Jackson left?
(I have to admit I've stopped following the case, so I'm sincerely asking- I don't know).

Yeah, he called me the nite b4 and told me that.

His nurse said that he told her that his veins were too small n hard to find,
while she was looking for one.

It is the function of juries to decide what to believe,
based upon the evidence presented b4 them. In the event of
insufficient evidence to decide: defendant wins.

Yes, we DON 'T. We have a natural, inalienable right
to become drug addicts, or to commit suicide, tho I don 't recommend either.
We have the natural right to engage in self-destructive behavior.

That 's what it means to live in a free country.
(I, for one, will have nothing to do with those drugs,
which I consider poison.)