Can you understand the comment?

That is what I meant to express with the phrase "ought to", JTT.
So I wonder if English is you mother tongue/first language.
If you were, why have other native English speakers had the understanding different to yours?

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Reading more (good writing or news) might help more. Because conversations are casual with loose grammar.

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@oristarA,

May I make a suggestion ori? Why don't we use this thread for some cozy conversation?

1 Reply

@panzade,

Good idea.

What topic will you prefer?

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@oristarA,

how about....hmmm....let me think

How about what we do at work? I'll start

I play in a four-man band at nightclubs and restaurants and sometimes for weddings.
We play American Country music...have you ever heard any popular American songs?

1 Reply

@panzade,

"Take me home, Virginia, Mountain Mama..." old American song, and I couldn't have remembered the lyric exactly. Do you know that song?

Your job's more or less romantic. I translate medical news from English to Chinese here. My Chinese language skill is cool. The question is that my English language skill is so limited that it is a great challenge for me. So I have to keep learning English.

1 Reply

@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:

why have other native English speakers had the understanding different to yours?

It's not really a different understanding oristar. Native English speakers use “ought to” in the same fashion as you did. It’s just that “ought to” is prescriptive and can imply an imperative. “Welcome to,” is more an invitation.

If you can see the distinction, and can discern when an imperative is invoked, you’re well on the way to understanding our idioms and nuance.

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@oristarA,

Quote:

"Take me home, Virginia, Mountain Mama..." old American song, and I couldn't have remembered the lyric exactly. Do you know that song?

Yes, a song by an American singer named John Denver called Take Me Home Country Roads. It talks about a province or state in America called West Virginia and about the joys of living in the country as opposed to the city.

http://www.myonlinemaps.com/images/west-virginia-map.gif

Is there a Chinese song you could post that would be similar? I'd like to hear one of your favorite songs.

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@panzade,

Hoo Boy! I did some driving in West Virginia, back in the early 60s. If a curve were posted for 25 miles per hour, I quickly learned you didn't want to try it at 26 miles per hour. That was with dry pavement and new tires.

1 Reply

@roger,

I tell you what!

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@panzade,

That's right! Take Me Home Country Roads touts an idea that a pure heart is older than time itself - I got this impression when listening to the song. Now I checked the lyric of the song again, and found the idea might be buried deep there. It takes you to HOME.

Why did I get such an impression? And what is TIME? When I read Professor Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time, the professor said Augustine had expressed his view that TIME is one of natures that God empowered to this universe. So the HOME might be the place where God lives in.

Have I gone too far? Smile

I just hope that you did remember the song with your heart, and not googled it out. Smile

I believe there must be a similar Chinese song though I couldn't remember which one.

The traditional culture in China is much polluted by CCP propaganda so as to a truly good song might not be able to be produced in modern China. With your heart restrainted, you cannot sing a REAL song. A REAL song must be sang with your heart.

(Correct me grammatically or rhetorically if you find out improper or inpopular expression in my postings. Thanks)

3 Replies

Correct:

must be sang === > must be sung.

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@oristarA,

Quote:

touts an idea that a pure heart is older than time itself -

I marveled at this sentence ori. It is very sophisticated and very true. And I never imagined that you might have read Hawkings or you might be a Christian in a land of atheism.

Quote:

I just hope that you did remember the song with your heart, and not googled it out. Smile

I remembered it with my memory, as there was a time long ago when I knew and played that song well.

Quote:

(Correct me grammatically or rhetorically if you find out improper or inpopular expression in my postings. Thanks)

I've decided not to correct you here. I'd like this thread to be where you write "while throwing caution to the wind"(a lovely popular expression here). Let the corrections come on your other threads.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

That is what I meant to express with the phrase "ought to", JTT.
So I wonder if English is you mother tongue/first language.
If you were, why have other native English speakers had the understanding different to yours?

Yup, old mother English is what I've used since, well, forever, Oristar. I've been actively involved in ESL for over 20 years.

The following,

Do you mean you all think it's a good idea for me to join discussions or conversations of this community (able2know)?

which you said was your idea of 'should/ought to' is fairly neutral. I think that those folks just wanted to make sure that you didn't feel that you were being pushed.

Quote:

Native English speakers use “ought to” in the same fashion as you did. It’s just that “ought to” is prescriptive and can imply an imperative.

I don't know what you mean by "ought to is prescriptive", Joe. 'should' and 'ought to' are used to offer advice and the strength of that advice can range from pretty weak to fairly strong but it's certainly a ways from an imperative.

Between 'should/ought to' and an imperative, saaaaayy, "Join conversational threads" is 'must', which also can be strong or weak though with not as wide a range as 'should/ought to'.

1 Reply

@oristarA,

Quote:

why have other native English speakers had [the] an understanding different to yours?

I'd say that 'the' is too specific here, Ori, in that there wasn't one clear 'understanding' that the others all held.

Quote:

Reading more (good writing or news) might help more. Because conversations are casual with loose grammar.

The best way to learn a language is to become familiar with all of language. Conversation does not use loose grammar, Ori. English speakers, like speakers of all languages, follow the only rules they know, the rules for their language. The rules for speaking are different than those of writing but even in writing there are large differences in collocation/structure choice.

One register is not better, more correct than any other register. They all simply fulfill the requirements needed for the particular register.

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@oristarA,

Quote:

Good idea.

What topic [will] do/would you prefer?

I can't quite put my finger on why 'will' doesn't sound natural, Ori. I doubt that it's merely a matter of formality [would] because 'do' fits there as well.

Confused

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@panzade,

Good stuff. Nice post.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

I don't know what you mean by "ought to is prescriptive", Joe. 'should' and 'ought to' are used to offer advice and the strength of that advice can range from pretty weak to fairly strong but it's certainly a ways from an imperative.

What, never prescriptive? Never an implied imperative?

You ought to look up ought.

Razz

1 Reply

@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:

With your heart restrainted, you cannot sing a REAL song. A REAL song must be sang with your heart.

This would make a lovely signature line Very Happy

1 Reply

@Joeblow,

ori is a beautiful cat

1 Reply

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