Jesus said I am the way.

@fresco,

Are you claiming that the fanaticism is a function of religious belief or that the religious belief has no grounding in earthly matters.

You could just as easily claim that the fanaticism was a function of a national anthem or a flag.

The promotion of miltant atheism is likely to increase the fanaticism because the "earthly matters" are threatened by it. You are assuming that the problem cannot be managed more effectively by a more cautious and intelligent approach which takes the facts into account. And for your own benefit.

You have no method of taking us from where we are to where you want to get to. In fact I doubt you would want to get there if you knew what it would be like.

Do you really think that if religious belief vanished there would be no fanatics?

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Some of you seem to feel terribly threatened by my belief however. I wonder why that is?

Planes flying into buildings is not sufficient to be wary of religious belief? Abortion clinics exploding is not sufficient to be wary of religious belief?

0 Replies

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Do you really think that if religious belief vanished there would be no fanatics?

Maybe not. But there would certainly be several billion less of them!

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Dear if the Christians railroad workers would had walk away from the railroads then no one could had been transported to the death camps now could they!

If the good Christians at the chemical works would had refused to take part in manufacturing the poison gas components or even if the German IBM employees would had refused to service the IBM punch cards machines that keep track of the Jews and others scheduled to go to the death camps and on and on it go.

It take a large part of the total society to transport and then kill six millions plus human beings it is not a job for a few SS members.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Quote:

But it is not irrational to believe in what we have experienced in our own lives, and Christianity is an experiential religion. It seems to me to be far more irrational to presume to know what somebody else has or has not experienced

.

This is an example of what Americans might term cockamanie logic.
The fact that you may have "experienced" the common epiphany of "holistic love and well being" familiar to most meditators in no way relates it to a particular religion or its mythological details. Nor does it imply that such transitory feelings of "benificience" have any significant effect on the way of the world in general.
The "irrationality" would be to presume otherwise given the weight of historical evidence against the "benefits" of religious belief at the societal level, irrespective of its psychological uses to individuals.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

Foxfrye you a believer in the supernatural and as such the sane members of society have no idea of what you might be talk into believing and doing in the future.

You might be talk into giving your children poison cool aid to drink in a jungle somewhere as that is god will after killing a member of congress or killing yourself to go meet the mother ship in far off space or fighting off law enforcement so your leader can finish a new part of the bible or………….fly a plane into a building or blow yourself up in a crowd ,,,,,,,kill an abortion doctor.

You are an irrational human who under the right set of conditions could be convince to do great evil and harm in the name of god.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

What exactly would you do Bill? And how would you sell it?

You are hereby granted permission to enjoy the comfort of only applying your answers to 300,000,000 Americans.

We will do the wider world after that.

1 Reply

@spendius,

You are hereby granted permission to enjoy the comfort of only applying your answers to 300,000,000 Americans.
----------------------------------------------------
Hmm I would forbid the brain washing of children concerning religion ideas of any kind until they reach the age of say 12 to 14 years old to start with.

It is child abused to teach nonsense to children before they reach an age where everything a parent or other adult tell them is not accepted as fact.

Most people tend to laugh at the ideas contain in other people faiths that they was not taught in very early childhood.

End of 99 percent of irrationality in one generation.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Foxfrye you a believer in the supernatural and as such the sane members of society have no idea of what you might be talk into believing and doing in the future.

You might be talk into giving your children poison cool aid to drink in a jungle somewhere as that is god will after killing a member of congress or killing yourself to go meet the mother ship in far off space or fighting off law enforcement so your leader can finish a new part of the bible or………….fly a plane into a building or blow yourself up in a crowd ,,,,,,,kill an abortion doctor.

You are an irrational human who under the right set of conditions could be convince to do great evil and harm in the name of god.

That makes about as much sense as me saying that you, an Atheist, would presume to dictate Atheism and prohibit others from promoting any other religious belief. Wait, you just did that in your post to Spendi, didn't you.

I am thinking that those nations that forbade any worship of God were such as Stalin's Russia or Mao's China in which tens of millions of people were slaughtered by order of the all powerful, all omniscient, state.

I prefer belief in a loving supernatural God and our First Amendment protection thank you very much. And I think my attitude about it is far far less dangerous than yours.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Don't be so bloody silly Bill. We are talking about millions of kids in nurseries and schools and watching cartoons. Not some abstract notions swirling around your head.

What you want to forbid has to be passed in Congress to get forbidden. Have you ever thought of millions of unwashed brains.

1 Reply

@spendius,

I never said it could be done in the real universe however you gave me a magic wand and I reply in that manner.

Even Foxfrye would now more then likely be laughing at a god/human born of a virgin birth if she had not been brain wash in early childhood.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

That makes about as much sense as me saying that you, an Atheist, would presume to dictate Atheism and prohibit others from promoting any other religious belief. Wait, you just did that in your post to Spendi, didn't you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No I did not said anything of the kind just that all religion ideas of any kind could not be taught to young children before they reach the age of reason my dear.

That ban would include atheism along with your idea of a god/human.

Good luck in selling your silly supernatural belief system after a child had reach the age of reason however.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Good luck in selling your silly supernatural belief system after a child had reach the age of reason however.

Perfect summation. It's something even the theists cannot argue against, because it's so blindingly obvious. Religious belief is 99% the result of childhood indoctrination. It explains why most Italians are Roman Catholic, why most Israelis are Jewish, why most Saudis are muslims. Take that malignant influence out of their childhood, and they've got a far greater chance of growing up with reason as their companion.

1 Reply

@Wilso,

Quote:

Take that malignant influence out of their childhood, and they've got a far greater chance of growing up with reason as their companion.

There's only one thing wrong with that theory, Wilso. It is assumes that these kids who've been spared the "malignant influence" somehow ended up being raised by adults who had "reason as their companion." Where do you propose to find such adults?

2 Replies

@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

Quote:
Take that malignant influence out of their childhood, and they've got a far greater chance of growing up with reason as their companion.

There's only one thing wrong with that theory, Wilso. It is assumes that these kids who've been spared the "malignant influence" somehow ended up being raised by adults who had "reason as their companion." Where do you propose to find such adults?

All I can do is start with my own children. I don't know whether they will become religious at some point in their lives, but I can guarantee it will be their own decision, and not a result of indoctrination.

0 Replies

I have been a Buddhist for 29 years. There is no God or Jesus in our philosophy. There's me and you. I have found tremendous joy through my practice.

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

There's only one thing wrong with that theory, Wilso. It is assumes that these kids who've been spared the "malignant influence" somehow ended up being raised by adults who had "reason as their companion." Where do you propose to find such adults?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What? The parents/adults can believe anything they wish to and even try to sell it to their offsprings after they reach the age of reason not before.

Seem completely fair to me. The important aspect is to prevent any irrational beliefs to be given to the children before their minds are working to at least a high fraction of their full adult abilities.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Your solution to the problem, Bill, is one of the silliest I've yet heard.

You're proposing a family situation where a kid asks his mom or dad a question and the law prohibits the giving of what the parent considers a true answer?? (Whether the answer is true is any objective sense is irrelevant.) Do you have children? Can you even imagine a scenario where something like you suggest is possible? I can't. When you start to mess with what a parent may or may not instruct his children in, you are cruising toward a nightmarish totalitarian society. What's the next step? The children reporting their parents to the Thought Policed because the old man was overheard to use the word 'God'?

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

Of course Merry Andrew it would be hard and not very practical to do however I was given a magic wand by another poster and I had used it.

You could however keep children out of religion indoctrination centers better known in our culture as churches until they reach the age of reason.

Most parents are not going to go to the trouble of full indoctrination without the support of such indoctrination centers.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

That makes about as much sense as me saying that you, an Atheist, would presume to dictate Atheism and prohibit others from promoting any other religious belief. Wait, you just did that in your post to Spendi, didn't you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No I did not said anything of the kind just that all religion ideas of any kind could not be taught to young children before they reach the age of reason my dear.

That ban would include atheism along with your idea of a god/human.

Good luck in selling your silly supernatural belief system after a child had reach the age of reason however.

What's next on your agenda, Bill? Burning books? Closing kindergartens and early grade schools? Lock the kids away until they reach a certain age?

You may ignore the fact, but many, many children grow up maintaining their belief system. That is why there are so many adults attending Church and praying to God.

1 Reply

Jesus said I am the way.

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know