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Should the American taxpayer bail out California?

 
 
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 09:49 am
So as it stands now Californian citizens are unwilling to pay enough taxes to pay the State of California's bills, and the political system is broken so there is no hope that the state will be reformed anytime soon. State leaders are asking to a $5-10 billion bailout this year above and beyond the $100+ billion stimulus rationalized bailout of all of the states plan. Should the American citizens bail out the negligent state of California citizens just once, every year, or not at all?

By the way I ask the question it should be clear that my answer is HELL NO!. Yes, if we don't California will collapse further, which will cost our national economy. But I think that California citizens will never learn to be responsible adults until they are forced to do so. The force applied should be the being made to face head on the pain caused by their foolish and irresponsible behaviour. American citizens become the facilitators of dysfunction if we hand over our money now. Only after the state agrees to reform their constitution and their budget process, and agree in principle that taxes raised must cover expenses incurred, should America show willingness to help.

It is past time for tough love.
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Type: Question • Score: 11 • Views: 2,722 • Replies: 46
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 10:13 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
San Diego County: Hey guys, we have a $700 million surplus, wanna know how we did it? State Govt: Fark off, we got it


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjlqNC25bI8&feature=player_embedded

The county tried to show the state how to do it, and the state apparently didnt want to hear it.

If the state govt would do what the county did, the state wouldnt be in the mess it is now.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 10:24 am
Would a novel solution to California's problem be assisted if foreign countries could buy "immigration equity" in a state? Specifically, in the way of example, if China wanted to increase its immigration to the U.S., so Chinese nationals could develop American business (that then trades with China), China could buy an immigration quota from the U.S. federal government (the monies specifically allocated to help with California's tax burden). More Chinese nationals then come to the U.S., bolstering the U.S. economy, while the "immigration quota purchase" helps California's tax burden, and China has additional trading partners in the U.S.

A win-win solution? Note that no foreign government bought any property (like the Japanese once bought Rockefeller Center), but just bought an immigration quota. In my opinion, the children of the new immigrants would be contributing Americans quite quickly, since they would be inheriting a parent's business.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 10:39 am
@mysteryman,
I guess if California had increased their tax revenues by 38% from 2002- 2005 they wouldn't be in the position they are.

http://www.sdtreastax.com/pt_general.html#calendar

FISCAL YEAR .. AMOUNT COLLECTED

2005-2006 ... $3,499,928,919.62

2002-2003 ... $2,518,098,853.33

Are you proposing that California should have raised their tax revenues by 38% over 3 years MM?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 10:58 am
@parados,
Quote:
Are you proposing that California should have raised their tax revenues by 38% over 3 years MM?


a dollar saved is as good as a dollar earned. A lot of the problem is foolish spending, for instance obscene and immoral prison spending, rampant fraud in the social spending programs, and paying too many state workers too much money. But certainly taxes need to be increased.

You don't solve the problem in California with fixing this decades long problem of the state robbing from the counties though. The political process is broken and the dysfunctional county/state relationship is a big part of the problem.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 01:07 pm
@Foofie,
Interesting idea, Foofie, but your immigrants would take one look at the job market and start migrating to the east.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 02:48 pm
Hell no is right.

Whether it is an individual, a company, a state or a country, the consequence of poor decisions need to experienced, or the decisions being made will continue to be poor.

It's a pretty simple dynamic.

Just like "don't spend more than you make" is a pretty simple concept. It's not something only the brilliant and educated can learn or practice.

Finding ways to mask or postpone the consequence of violating the principle are not ingenious, they are irresponsible and worse. They are as much based on selfish greed as any of the most reprehensible schemes of Wall Street swindlers.

Demanding others (whether they be folks who work harder than you or your children and grandchildren) pay for your whims and wishes; your follies and bad intentions is immoral.

California has made it's bed and it must now sleep in it. The poorest Californians will only suffer during the economic reboot the state needs, if the people of California allow it, and if the rest of the country steps in to bail them out on the basis that poor Californians should not suffer, the bad decisions will be further enabled. The "poor" with their big screen TVs, cell phones and i-pods who have sought and accepted public assistance have contributed to the state's problems as well. For their sake as well as the sake of California, they should not be isolated from the consequences of bad decisions.

We are at a serious crossroads now. I have a sinking feeling we are going to make the wrong turn.

0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 02:58 pm
President Obama has already expended a lot of political capital on the auto industry. There is no way the Fed can help CA. The rest of the country would not tolerate it. Period.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 04:04 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
President Obama has already expended a lot of political capital on the auto industry. There is no way the Fed can help CA. The rest of the country would not tolerate it. Period


it is not that, the federal government is already guaranteeing something like $6 trillion in debt, and is spending $1 trillion a year to prop up the failed economy. The national treasury can't take on the burden of the states debts. In case nobody noticed, the debt sales have not been going well of late because those whom have money to lend are questioning the wisdom of investing in America now. We are getting close to the point were the only way to get money will be to print more money, which will cause inflation. We know that inflation hurts.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 06:39 pm
We shouldn't bail them out. They should spend less.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2009 11:00 pm
Damn, I love Krugman, right again he is
Quote:
California, it has long been claimed, is where the future happens first. But is that still true? If it is, God help America.


The recession has hit the Golden State hard. The housing bubble was bigger there than almost anywhere else, and the bust has been bigger too. California’s unemployment rate, at 11 percent, is the fifth-highest in the nation. And the state’s revenues have suffered accordingly.

What’s really alarming about California, however, is the political system’s inability to rise to the occasion

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/25/opinion/25krugman.html
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 06:25 am
california, land of the double latte, high colonic, fruits and nuts. Even the smog is organic and the Oxnard exit is a shooting gallery.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 11:22 am
@dyslexia,
So, what's the catch?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 12:20 pm
@parados,
Sand Diego County increases tax rates in 2009 in spite of recession

Boy.. raising taxes in a recession. That seems to be working for San Diego County. Maybe the state of CA should try raising taxes.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 12:33 pm
@dyslexia,

Fruits and nuts! Waaaaaaaahahahahaha!
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 12:40 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Sand Diego County increases tax rates in 2009 in spite of recession

Boy.. raising taxes in a recession. That seems to be working for San Diego County. Maybe the state of CA should try raising taxes.


You don't know how mismanaged our funds were a few years back. We even
had federal audits and lots of city officials got indicted and have left their
position on not so friendly terms. Here in San Diego, it's been a roller coaster
for quite some time, the 2 % property tax increase doesn't faze us at all
after what we've been through fiscally. Sales tax was increased too, by the way!
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 01:14 pm
I read a day or so ago the suggestion that CA should be divided into 4 states. It will never happen, of course. I would like to see 5 states, so that some newspaper headline writer could put up: "Gall, as a whole, is divided into five parts."
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 02:41 pm
@CalamityJane,
What part of SAn Diego do you live in?
San Diego is my hometown.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 03:04 pm
@mysteryman,
I'm on the coast in La Jolla.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 03:07 pm
@CalamityJane,
I am originally from Oceanside, and grew up between there and El Cajon (depending on who I was staying with, my mom or my dad).

I spent a lot of time at the coves.
0 Replies
 
 

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