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Should the American taxpayer bail out California?

 
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 03:15 pm
lived in ocean beach for a while when i first came to california. the pier was right next to our apartment. awesome intro to california.

we needed more space, so we moved to mira mesa. our house was right across the street from the main gate of nas miramar. i think they changed the name to marine air base miramar, or something like.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 03:31 pm
this is too weird! after i left that last post, i checked out my facebook page....

and a friend in kentucky had posted a picture of herself with me and one of our roadies in front of the miramesa house, on baroness. i don't think i've seen that one before.

it weren't purty. being 18 in 1976 had apparently led to some poor clothing choices. Very Happy
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 03:43 pm
Its not Ca, but here is how one repub governor outmanuevered and outsmarted the dem legislature.

He succeeded in getting spending cuts over the dems objections...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124295250785545573.html

Quote:
If Republicans are looking to get back their conservative groove, they could do worse than study Minnesota's budget brawl. Mr. Pawlenty deftly (and amusingly) outmaneuvered his Democratic opposition, not only saving his state from huge tax increases but clearing the way to cut government spending. Call it a refreshing break from the financial-crisis norm.

Like most states, Minnesota has been facing a huge budget shortfall -- an estimated $4.6 billion over two years. These dire financial straits didn't deter the DFL-controlled legislature (the DFL is Minnesota's chapter of the Democratic Party), which got to work on big new spending bills. Included were not just the usual increases in appropriations but gems like $1.2 million in grants for TV and film producers and $200,000 for a youth environmental education program. Recession? What recession?


Quote:
To fill in the hole they'd blown in the upcoming fiscal budget the DFL then proceeded to float every tax hike known to Garrison Keillor. A short list: A new top income tax rate of 9% (the fourth highest in the nation); across-the-board income tax increases; sales taxes on Internet downloads; the end of the local property tax cap (enacted only last year); alcohol taxes; cigarette taxes; eliminating the deduction for an organ donation (no joke); and killing the home mortgage interest deduction.


Quote:
Upon receiving the last spending bill, he announced that he would exercise the power of "unallotment," which has been on the books since 1939 and which has been used four times. Under it, the governor is allowed to "unallot" (take away) any state spending for which there is no money to pay. Panicked, the DFL passed tax legislation to cover its blowout spending bills, 10 minutes before the session's end. Too late. The governor said he'd veto the bill and would not be calling back the legislature to do any more mischief.


So it seems the dems wanted to raise taxes to cover their out of control spending, and the repub gov outsmarted them.
It does point out however how the dems really want to tax and spend, instead of actually cutting spending.

parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 03:53 pm
@mysteryman,
Living in MN, the citizens here see it quite differently from the WSJ.

Once the actual effects start taking place, the governor is going to be greatly disliked; higher local taxes, cities have to reduce services because of reductions in state aid, increased medical costs, closing of many services. The only thing the governor has NOT done is reduce his salary.

The state court system has announced if the proposed cuts are made they will no longer be able to hold trials for certain offenses such as traffic tickets and petty crimes. If those are contested, they will be thrown out. This isn't going to go well for the governor at the end of the 2 years.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 04:11 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
The SD Ocean Beach? I spent a lot of time there with boyfriend in '71, me living in west LA, so this involved a lot of driving back and forth. Good times, mostly. Anyway, the good memories win.

No comment yet on the thread question - I'm mostly No, with various thoughts about prop 13 and recent tax questions.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 04:19 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

The SD Ocean Beach?


yep! OB. there was a place called The Black (i think, twas long ago), that had the most amazing square pan pizza. buck a slice.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 04:26 pm
Ah, everyone has good memories of the beaches here. I wish I'd been here in
the 70s; would have bought good prime real estate - nowadays it's hardly
affordable *sigh*
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 05:54 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Ah, everyone has good memories of the beaches here. I wish I'd been here in
the 70s; would have bought good prime real estate - nowadays it's hardly
affordable *sigh*


if you'd been there back then, you probably wouldn't have been interested in material possessions.

although a lot of people thought that to be in possession of a case of Primo Beer and a bag of gold or sens was pretty cool. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 06:06 pm
@realjohnboy,
Realjohnboy--I don't know if you are making a clever allusion with your comment--Gall, as a whole is divided into three parts but it is really-_"All GAUL is divided into three parts, unless,of course, you are speaking about Barack Hussein Obama and then you would say all GALL is not devided, it belongs to the ex-community organizer, formerly known as Barry.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 May, 2009 06:08 pm
I'm still working to digest the image of Mysteryman being a surfer dude in San Diego as a lad.
genoves
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 12:38 am
@realjohnboy,
Why Not? He was adept enough to serve as a soldier.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 12:47 pm
@genoves,
Yes, you are correct about the Gaul thing being 3 parts. It has been a long time since my Latin classes. And yes it was an attempt at a play on words.
Speaking of gall, I heard a story on NPR this morning about one of CA's other problems: the drought. Seems that in a number of municipalities ratepayers have blocked the cities from metering water usage. I thought I heard that in Fresno, households pay a flat rate of $23 a month regardless. Sacramento is going to a meter system after a legal battle...but not until -ready for this-2025!
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 01:35 pm
@realjohnboy,
You think food prices are high now, wait until the farmers in the Central Valley have to pay for the actual quantity of water they use and not the flat monthly fee.

More incentive for getting my vegetable garden built.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 02:39 pm
@Butrflynet,
Yeah. In some areas completely unsuited to growing, they are irrigating pasture land to raise cows. This would never work with unsubsidized water. On the other hand, if the subsidies are removed, there will alot more water available.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 02:45 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

And yes it was an attempt at a play on words.
*********************************************************************
Thank you, realjohnboy. I am glad to hear that. In my calculus anyone who references Latin phrases cannot be a radical leftist.

Most of them believe that History began when Karl Marx was born.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 04:06 pm
@realjohnboy,
I still have my old surfboard.
Its up in the garage now, and I havent used it in a few years, but I spent many a day at the beach (sometimes I was there instead of school)
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 05:16 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I still have my old surfboard.
Its up in the garage now, and I havent used it in a few years, but I spent many a day at the beach (sometimes I was there instead of school)


hmmm. my brother in law is an sd native and was pretty active in the surf thingy; and i think about the same age as you.

i wonder if you guys would know each other.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 08:26 pm
California was the Promised Land for Heads in the 60's and early 70's, and even still it is one hell of a beautiful stretch of land, but it has long been the land of pretense.

During this Golden Age, there were hippies all along the eastern and gulf coasts of America who were quite happy with their better beaches and more than a bit uncomfortable with the high handed California Cool.

A perfect example:

I lived for a time, in a rented house with four other Long Island hippies and one utter assh*le who occupied the basement cave and tested our patience and love for mankind on a daily basis.

The Californian friend of one of my housemates came to visit one summer and spent about four weeks with us.

His first exposure to "B" was during a poker game wherein the rest of us just piled the usual ton of **** on his deserving self. In true Californian fashion he was perturbed:

"Hey man, lay off "B!" This ain't cool, he's one of God's children. Just isn't cool man!"

Four weeks later, after being subjected to "B" for a month he ended his stay with another poker game. In the first 30 minutes, "B" brought Kid California to his boiling point:

"**** you Bubby, I'm going home tomorrow and good ******* riddance to your ****!"

Wherever you have your best times is a place for which you will be nostalgic: California, New York, Alabama, Montana, Iowa et al.

Not all of these places have proved to be incapable of living within their means, and those that have, are full of crap if they tell us they been laid low because they consider everyone one of "God's Children."




DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 09:47 pm
part of the problem for california has been the low return back to the state vs. dollars paid to fed taxes.

in 2005 (the most recent year i've been able to find, but i'm still looking) california was only getting back $ .78 cents for every $1.00 paid in fed taxes.

in the same year, my native kentucky was receiving $1.51


idaho received $1.21, iowa $1.10, kansas $1.12, north dakota $1.68, south carolina $1.35, tennessee $ 1.27, virginia $1.51, west virginia $1.76, new mexico $2.03, alaska $1.84, arizona $1.19 it goes on.

i'm still researching, and i don't know much about this source, but it's a starting place.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html



hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 May, 2009 09:56 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Quote:
In 2003, Californians sent $50 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received in federal expenditures. Representing a slight increase from levels that have held steady for three preceding years, the Golden State’s imbalance set a new record for any state, surpassing the previous mark (set also by California, in 2000 and 2001) of $48 billion.

To a large extent, however, two demographic factors help explain California’s spending versus taxing shortfall. (A third key factor, declining contract and defense spending, is discussed later.) First, state residents’ income levels exceed the national average, yielding above-average income tax receipts " an effect amplified by the progressive nature of the federal income tax system. Second, and more significantly, California’s population is considerably younger than average. Thus, the state houses fewer recipients of Social Security and Medicare payments " parts of a fast-growing budget sector that now accounts for nearly half of the nation’s total federal expenditures. Because of these two demographic influences, California’s status as a donor state should be expected to some degree.

http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm

California would be somewhat better off if they had not told the Military to shove off from San Fransisco, we closed a lot of bases there were a lot of money had been spent over the years. Even in this instance it is difficult to have sympathy for California, they made this mess themselves.
 

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