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A POLITICICAL WEREWEASEL - ARLEN SPECTER

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 07:15 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Wait until there's an important vote.


Other than domestic concerns Obama has not been advocating any agendas which strongly resonate with the majority of the 'Dem's.' It has been a severe disappointment. On the budget, Specter voted against.

Quote:
The Senate adopted the plan by a 53-43 vote just hours after a 233-193 House tally.

Newly-turned Democrat Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania voted against the measure as he did earlier this month when it initially passed the Senate. Three other Democrats also voted no: Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Robert Byrd of West Virginia and Evan Bayh of Indiana.

Seventeen House Democrats, mostly from GOP-leaning districts, voted against the budget.

Not a single Republican in the House or Senate voted for the measure.



source
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 06:14 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Because we can't see who he or she may be 100 days after Obama took office

Proximity to the election is not the point. The problems for the GOP and conservative movement are far deeper than a single election. They involve not merely a shift in the center of the electorate (self-identification for Republicans is 20 or 21%) but the imbalance in the youth vote and in the latino vote, and in the concentration of republican voters to the south. Further, the past two or three decades of conservative organizing and activism has very purposefully pushed moderates out of power in the party. A consequence of this is the lack of means (compared to earlier periods) where independent-minded thinkers might be welcomed and fostered - the feeder line into the party is badly ruptured. On top of that, you also face the situation where the media elements set up or utilized to forward conservative interests (Fox, talk radio, various papers and web enterprises) have become not merely extremist but very powerful and thus work as effective stops against moderation and change.

Obviously another quality leader will arise at some point. Jindal shows promise, for example. But he has no hope at all of besting far more powerful elements in the movement/party (eg Limbaugh, Norquist, Fox, etc) and he isn't even trying because he has no chance.

Your party is falling apart and it's old. The only good thing about this is that it has to in order for something worthwhile to evolve in its place. Limbaugh now wants McCain and Powell to join Specter and leave the party. They should. Even if, as with Specter, that will bring more conservatives into the Dem party and process and thus present certain problems for Dem governance (as diversity always does) it would greatly speed of the collapse of the present power structures in your party and they need to go. They have become deeply destructive no merely to your party but to the nation.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 06:23 pm
It is worth noting, Mr. Mountie, that there has always been a conservative wing of the Democratic Party. Conservative Democrats have always been very strong in Texas, for example, which is why Tom Delay pushed a move to gerrymander the Texas Congressional districts, so that more Republicans could be elected--rural Texas remains largely conservative Democrat. My grandfather was a Democratic precinct committeeman, and he and my grandmother were life-long conservative Democrats.

You are absolutely correct that diversity presents problems for political parties. The Democrats, though, can no more afford to alienate conservative members of their party than the Republicans can afford to alienate moderate members of their party. I suspect that the Republicans will not only survive, but will, in the course of the years, thrive and prosper. Things will be rather bleak for them, however, in the short term.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 07:46 pm
@Setanta,
hi set
No disagreement with what you wrote there. My notion re the future of the GOP seems to match yours. It'll survive but short term bleak indeed. Given the entrenchment of the existing power structures, I suspect it will take another electoral loss or, more likely, two. But that is just to become credible and viable again as a national party.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 08:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
Perfect!

Why should the ascendant Dems cater to a former Republican and a monumental weasel?

Since so many of them believe the thousand year domination of the Democrats is upon us, why wouldn't they want a far more ideologically pure Senator from PA? Surely the Dem candidate will kick the ass of the GOP candidate. They don't need Specter...he needs them!

Of course Specter's chances for re-election as a Dem hinged, in enormously large measure, on his ability to bring home the bacon for PA citizens (farmerman) and now all he has is the Dem's anemic promise to reconsider the seniority issue if he is re-elected.

Specter is now faced with a key decision point, and the Dems have it all going on.

To have any chance of Dem support for his re-election, he will need to prove himself the most orthodox of party members. No more phony nonsense about independence. No more assertions that he will not march in lock step with the Dems. No more blather about voting against Union strong arm tactics.

But if he does so, and he cannot promise PA the benefit of his seniority, who votes for him?

Liberals who would, clearly, prefer one of their own?

Moderates who don't care about his voting record but just can't resist those pocked jowls?

Conservatives of any stripe?

Practical realists who only care about how much DC money he can bring to PA?

Specter is ferked, and if he slithers out of this trap, he is a political genius.

So, if he sees his personal political career at the dead-end it has now reached will he lash out at the party that falsely enticed him to turn coat, or merely attempt to find some principled line to follow?

This is a minor victory for forces on the run, but it boosts morale.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 09:00 pm
@revel,
He wasn't going to be seen as a Dem lap-dog when they couldn't reign in 3 senators and 17 representatives of their own.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 09:06 pm
@blatham,
What I love about you blatham is that you are such a God damned true-believe.

Galahad of The Left.

Forgive me if I don't, upon reading your sage words, admit defeat and counsel my fellows to surrender.



revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 09:35 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
He wasn't going to be seen as a Dem lap-dog when they couldn't reign in 3 senators and 17 representatives of their own.


Apparently they reigned enough to pass it so; it proves that when it came to the big vote, Specter didn't do as you suggested he would for whatever excuse you come up with.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 May, 2009 09:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn
Let's talk again after the next election cycle.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 04:47 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
This is a minor victory for forces on the run, but it boosts morale.
WHose forces are on the run? Th GOP is only now considering that perhaps their chosen candidate, Pat Toomey , is a bit too ideaologically pure , so they may wish to substitute Tom Ridge for Pat Toomey. Ridge is almost a DEmocrat anyway so the GOP realizes that, in order to win an election, they must put their POE aside and field a moderate.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 04:54 am
I got a kick out of the hullabaloo over Sarah Palins daughter becoming a spokesmodel for " teenage abstinance". This is such a bullshit trumped up "Values" play that its gotta be embarrasing for the rank and file GOPers. Weve got a huge defecit, a recession, growing unemployment, industries out of the black, an energy future that is apparently missing real leadership , and a couple of wars. SO all the GOP can come out with is the "Dont screw till your married " card.

The GOP is noticeably absent in ALL national leadership now, even though their counsel has been sought several times. They seem to be all tied up , and duct taped so that they dont accidentally try to offer anything that contributes to a solution to all these problems.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 04:58 am
@farmerman,
That's because they are hoping the Democrats will fail, of course.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 06:23 am
There are many indicators of how corroded, cynical and just downright stoopid the GOP and conservative movement have become but nothing points it out so clearly as Palin's nomination and continuing presence along with the evident power of Limbaugh to shape and control the party's stances and discourse. Tina Fey got it exactly right with her one routine where she quoted Palin verbatim (and I'll paraphrase the first bits)...
Quote:
"Incoherence...incoherence...incoherence...and the wonderful Ronald Reagan".


but I suppose we ought to acknowledge the internally consistent logic re the above - if the only proper function of government is to destroy itself so that other social agents are unimpeded in operation, then Limbaugh and Palin make perfect sense.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 06:40 am
I'd like to encourage everyone to read Gail Collins column this morning. She has evolved into, I think, the funniest writer doing a column in any paper (imagine Twain had he been female). Here's a teaser...
Quote:
But surely, when it comes to combating teen pregnancy, the Palin family has done enough damage already. What worse message could you send to teenage girls than the one they delivered at the Republican convention: If your handsome but somewhat thuglike boyfriend gets you with child, he will clean up nicely, propose marriage, and show up at an important family event wearing a suit and holding your hand. At which point you will get a standing ovation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/opinion/07collins.html?_r=1
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 06:45 am
@blatham,
Right. The same Gail Collins who wrote an op-ed whereby she forgives Spitzer for his "transgressions".
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 08:40 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

Since so many of them believe the thousand year domination of the Democrats is upon us,


Is it possible for you to write a single post without Appealing to Extremes, John?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 10:48 am
Good grief! According to Time, Joe the Horny Plumber is so fed up with the GOP he is quitting the party. And last night, the moon turned a bloody red. Signs for all to see.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 10:50 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Good grief! According to Time, Joe the Horny Plumber is so fed up with the GOP he is quitting the party. And last night, the moon turned a bloody red. Signs for all to see.


link!

Cycloptichorn
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 11:06 am
@Cycloptichorn,
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1896588,00.html

Sorry cyclo, I sort of don't care enough any more to bother going to the work of citations for the folks with missing brain stems.

But (according to TPM this morning) Ridge ain't gonna run. So, who else but Toomey? And if it's him, he'll get creamed.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 11:14 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1896588,00.html

Sorry cyclo, I sort of don't care enough any more to bother going to the work of citations for the folks with missing brain stems.

But (according to TPM this morning) Ridge ain't gonna run. So, who else but Toomey? And if it's him, he'll get creamed.


Forget citations! I just wanted to read the article meself.

Cheers
Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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