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A POLITICICAL WEREWEASEL - ARLEN SPECTER

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Apr, 2009 10:44 pm
@okie,
Quote:
And if he wants their support in the next election, he will probably cooperate big time. It is readily apparent he values being in office far more than any principle he holds dear, at least that seems apparent to me, and so he should be easily controlled by Harry and Company.


there is only a small window remaining to line up a real democrat for the seat, once that time is up what is Reid and Company going to do to keep Specter in line? Do you see the problem here? Obama swings for the seats, so I assume his thinking is that after 2010 they will have the 60 without specter so he can do what ever he likes, nobody in town will care what he wants. Obama's problem will be if he needs that vote, because either way (GOP/Specter) he will have trouble getting it.
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 07:05 am
@hawkeye10,
Specter said he would not be an "automatic 60th vote" for Democrats. He reiterated his opposition to the Employee Free Choice Act, saying that he would also oppose a filibuster-killing cloture vote. And he said he was still uncomfortable with Office of Legal Counsel nominee Dawn Johnsen.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 07:17 am
@revel,


Yeah, and just last month Specter said he would not become a turn coat...

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 09:13 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
And if he wants their support in the next election, he will probably cooperate big time. It is readily apparent he values being in office far more than any principle he holds dear, at least that seems apparent to me, and so he should be easily controlled by Harry and Company.


there is only a small window remaining to line up a real democrat for the seat, once that time is up what is Reid and Company going to do to keep Specter in line? Do you see the problem here? Obama swings for the seats, so I assume his thinking is that after 2010 they will have the 60 without specter so he can do what ever he likes, nobody in town will care what he wants. Obama's problem will be if he needs that vote, because either way (GOP/Specter) he will have trouble getting it.

Good points, and something else I may under-estimate, is the "quirkiness," or "inconsistency" of Specter. He considers himself an icon or a "somebody" that is bigger than party, so for even the Democrats to get him to toe the line all the time could be a big task even for them. I have listened to interviews with Specter on talk shows, lately in regard to the stimulus package, and it struck me that his thought process is kind of muddled, not clear, and so when he gets a thought into his head, right or wrong, he runs with it and thinks he is being heroic and principled, but can't see his own hypocrisy or can't admit to it, I'm not sure. I think he likes to be a pivotal vote, he wants to be noticed, he enjoys all the hullabaloo over him right now, and so all of this suits him fine. When the Democrats do the arm twisting for a pivotal vote, he may actually enjoy that so that he can be perceived as holding alot of power. That may be more important than the actual issue.

I hope I am not being too unfair to him, I am sure he thinks he holds certain principles dear, but the party switch seems all too transparently political to save his own chance of holding office.
ebrown p
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 09:44 am
@okie,
Quote:
but the party switch seems all too transparently political to save his own chance of holding office.


It always strikes me as funny when a politician is criticized for doing something political.

okie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 09:51 am
@ebrown p,
So I guess, ebrown, that you admit that politicians have no principles, they only do what they have to do in order to hold office. Regrettably, I think thats a fact all too often, but I still look for those people that believe in principles and are willing to sacrifice even their own careers if necessary to stay true to those. One reason I have little respect for politicians that govern by polls.

Sadly, I think the same applies to this forum, some people wish to be "with it," or with the crowd, if an opinion is unpopular, shy away from it.

ebrown p
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 10:05 am
@okie,
You are being silly okie.

Specter was harshly attacked by people like you for being a RINO. Everyone has known for decades that his is a moderate... there is no change in his principles.

The question here is whether there is any room in the Republican party for moderates. If being a moderate in the Republican party means you get punished by your own party to the point where it is clear you can't survive... then switching parties is smart. You would do the same.

Specter hasn't changed any of his political stances. Apparently most of his constituents-- the American citizens who he represents, are happy about this switch. If representing your constituents isn't a worthy principle... then I don't know what is.

The Republican party is going to have to choose between moderates and its extreme conservative wing. If they insist on making life impossible for the moderates their ranks... we are more than happy to welcome them in to ours.



okie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 10:20 am
@ebrown p,
When he voted for the irresponsible stimulus package, he deserved criticism. I guess we can't criticize him for that, he takes his bat and leaves. He struck out on that one, he deserved it. Here is a guy that supposedly stands for fiscal responsibility, and the only reason that came out of his mouth to vote for it was - "we need to do something." I firmly believe if we had not instituted the stimulus package, we would be as well off or better than we are now, the situation was not that dire, it was all so nonsensical that it had to be signed that weekend. Total nonsense, and he fell for it.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 10:27 am
@okie,
Quote:
I guess we can't criticize him for that


The issue here is the term "we". If "we" refers to "whiny conservatives" then your statement is correct.

The point is that Specter, as an elected official, doesn't serve whiny conservatives. He serves American citizens-- the majority of whom support the stimulus package.

He didn't "strike out" on the stimulus package. He supported it and it won.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 10:31 am
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/04/29/specter.party.switch/art.obamaspecter.gi.jpg
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 10:33 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/04/29/specter.party.switch/art.obamaspecter.gi.jpg


If turning into a democrat looks like it won't win Specter re-election, he will turn himself into a black man.

PrezBO steps back and laughs at the fool.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 10:36 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
We are now the holders in due course of a 1.5 party system.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 04:43 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
He serves American citizens-- the majority of whom support the stimulus package.


Actually, in his speech when he changed party, he said he works for the voters of Pa.

If I remember correct (and I may be wrong) didnt he used to be a democrat?
I just looked on Wiki, and they confirmed that he did used to be a democrat, then he switched to the repub party.
Did he originally switch for political expediency, like he did this time?

I found his speech explaining why he switched to the dem party to be extremely arrogant.

When he said...
Quote:
I am also disappointed that so many in the Party I have worked for for more than four decades do not want me to be their candidate
.

It sounds like he is blaming the voters for his action.
I heard another soundbite from him on NPR (but to be honest I dont know the show, except that it was early this morning) and that soundbite was to the effect that he didnt want his record judged by the repub voters of Pa.
It seems like since he was going to lose the primary, that he just didnt want to play anymore.

But, what assurance is there that he will win a dem primary?
Will the dem voters really trust him, since he changed party just to stay in the senate?
And especially after he went all over the state giving a guarantee that he would not leave the repub party?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I'm not predicting a swing to the right " any time soon." I'm predicting an eventual swing back to the right and sooner than prior cycles would suggest. That may be anywhere between 4 years and 12 years.

I'm so old that my memory is getting a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall there were people under the age of 30 in 2004, 2000, 1988, 1984, and 1980.

Republicans should throw away all those "useless" socially conservative positions like a fetus is a human and abortion is murder? Don't they know that such concerns are old hat?

Society wants guilt free irresponsible sex. Society doesn't want to think about the potential human lives it is snuffing to weave a false tale that it could have saved Christopher Reeves and will save Michael J Fox. Society has reached the ultimate state of enlightenment and now knows that the traditional family unit that has been its bedrock for millenia has actually always been a fraudulent means to oppress gays, lesbians, and transsexuals.

Yeah, if it would just reform itself around what Cyclo and other Liberals find acceptable, it might remain viable.

The notion that Karl Rove could ever have created permanent Republican dominance was always ridiculous, and it is equally ridiculous to suppose that the current dominance of Democrats is permanent.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:12 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I'm not predicting a swing to the right " any time soon." I'm predicting an eventual swing back to the right and sooner than prior cycles would suggest. That may be anywhere between 4 years and 12 years.


The problem is, that entire time period will see a marked rise in voters who disagree with your positions and a drop in voters who agree, as the older groups die off. How that will translate to a swing to the right, I dunno.

I'm pretty sure that you guys are left hoping for Obama to screw up. Otherwise, 4 to 12 years is a wildly optimistic prediction on your part.

Quote:

Republicans should throw away all those "useless" socially conservative positions like a fetus is a human and abortion is murder? Don't they know that such concerns are old hat?


I guess you don't know that it's old hat, but to the younger generations, it is. Look at the numbers if you don't believe me. When it comes to abortion and gay marriage, the youth of America is solidly against you, and we can already see the changes in those areas as more and more of said youth become voters.

Quote:

Society wants guilt free irresponsible sex.


Who the **** are you, Dr. Evil?

http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/film_images/Austin_Powers_Mike_Myers_as_Dr_Evil.jpg

Then I must respond in kind. See, now we have both freedom AND responsibility. It's really quite groovy, baby!

http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/bridget/AustinPowers.jpg

I do not believe the Dem majority is permanent, but the Republicans are not a viable party at the moment, and unless they can find something to change, they will not regain that viability. Dropping stupid and divisive social conservative views would go a long way towards that.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:25 pm
When Perry (governor of Texas) switched parties from Dem to Repub, of course, it was a courageous and moral decision.
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 05:28 pm
I don't think a lot of you Republicans understand what is happening right now; your ideas are unpopular. Either you will have to show them to be right or hope that the future proves them right. If you are unwilling to wait for the fullness of time to show you guys have the right answers, you are going to have to articulate your ideas one hell of a lot better than you are doing, or you will go the way of the Whigs.

You don't have to believe me, just look at the polls... and last two nation-wide federal elections.

You have lost 54 House seats and 14 Senators, yet think that redoubling conservative principles and rhetoric will reverse that? You guys remind me of an American tourist who thinks that speaking more loudly gets foreigners to understand them better.


btw; You can get pissed off at Specter but you ought to remember that his behavior during the Clarence Thomas nomination towards Anita Hill clinched Thomas's seat on the Court, so Specter did for your causes a lot more than guys you currently support.

I would welcome a debate on what our country ought to be for our children and grandchildren. My worst fear is that in my life America reached its apex and its downhill from here.

I want my nation to be a City upon a hill.

Quote:
"For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us."
John Winthrop, 1630


Quote:
"you are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden."
Matt: 5 14
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 08:10 pm
Kuvas is right about the Anita Hill interrogation. Specter treated her as if she was a street walker. I still remember his questioning vividly. But when you get down to if a person has the right to become a Republican or Democrat, it's a personal choice. I'd be willing to bet none of us hear had to wait for acceptance before we could register to vote. By the way, I didn't know that all Democrats are liars, that's a pretty interesting view which I believe makes all Republicans solid truth tellers. I know people who belong to each party and also independents. I suggest that you should assume that people vote their conscience just like you do, and avoid Ann Colterish hate speach. I also think it is up to Penn. to determine who represents them, not people from other states.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 08:19 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
I also think it is up to Penn. to determine who represents them, not people from other states.


I agree, which is why all who switch teams after being elected should need to face the voters immediately.

BTW, in case it has not been pointed out yet, Specter was one of four "Democrats" to vote against the Democrat budget today.....what a good Democrat this fellow is.....
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 08:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
He didn't switch teams... a Senator is responsible to all the Americans they represent (not just of one party).

But even if he did "switch teams"... that would not be an excuse to violate the Constitution.
 

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