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Our Toughest President...Here's The Proof

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 09:28 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
That can't sit well with your Animal Rights Activist friends.
You brute.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 7 May, 2009 09:35 pm
@MontereyJack,
Really?

I'm sure you're right, but perhaps you can offer some evidence of this claim.

And while you're at it can you tell us which states are the national chumps; giving more than they receive? Vermont, New York, New Jersey...

If you are, in fact, subsidizing us, I'm tired of it as well, and more than happy to turn off the spout in return for self-governance.

Texas sure as hell doesn't need the rest of America to thrive.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 May, 2009 01:06 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

An emotional, but moronic response.


that's all you have, isn't it?

you really have nothing at all. you fail.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 May, 2009 01:07 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

That can't sit well with your Animal Rights Activist friends.
You brute.


normally yes. but this time it was your dog.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 May, 2009 11:18 pm
Re: Bi-Polar Bear (Post 3624786)
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Who's the bad ass now?



The US NAVY SEALS are bad ass! That's who. Signature

Message to the Brain Trust......Who authorized the Navy Seals to respond???? You still think it might have been Cheney the chicken Hawk???You don't know do you, you are spending too much time in the toilet with naughty magazines, I am so tired of trying to educate these young dumbpoops. I'm not addressing Bear, just want to make that clear.
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 May, 2009 08:35 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
Message to the Brain Trust......Who authorized the Navy Seals to respond???? You still think it might have been Cheney the chicken Hawk???


And if you knew anything about how the military actually works, you wouldnt have asked that question.

Under standard ROE, a ships captain is the final authority.
He is the person that is in command, and he is the final voice in determining if guns are used or not.
Yes, Obama may have ok'd the plan, but the commander on scene had the final choice to decide if the seals were used or not.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 May, 2009 10:17 am
Look, you can split hairs all you want, and yes the commander on the scene was the one who authorized the action taken, but he got his authority from POTUS.
I also don't care if any of you think my work experience is fictional. I did what I did, I'm proud of my service and I loved my work. Don't blame the intell community for Cheney's decision, he ignored every warning. If you ever sat in on an NIE, you would hear all the opinions pro and con from all reps of intell orgs. They work out the options before it is sent to the decision makers so that they can make informed decisions. The Bush administration make decisions based on ideological slants, not from information prepared by experts.
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 9 May, 2009 11:07 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
but he got his authority from POTUS.


No, he actually didnt.
POTUS may have authorized this particular plan, but a ships commander has, throughout history, had full authority to do whatever was required to protect his ship and crew.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 May, 2009 11:19 am
You might want to explain that one to Obama, he is under the impression that he is the Commander in Chief. And if YOU knew anything about the military, you wouldn't have posed such a bogus rationale.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 May, 2009 11:38 am
@glitterbag,
Are you actually saying that a ships captain does not have the authority to take whatever action is neccessary to protect his ship and crew?
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 02:38 am
@mysteryman,
You must be very young and unaware of all the problems our US ships have been involved in. Several have been taken for years, our navy personnel held as prisoners....What happened when the US Cole was attacked??? Anyone care. How about the Marine Barracks in Beirut,,,,too long ago, I understand...it was probably the first season of American Idol, why should we spend too much time thinking about dead Americans who after all signed up on their own free will. Let's go shopping. Does that work for you mysteryman?????
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 04:42 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
a ships commander has, throughout history, had full authority to do whatever was required to protect his ship and crew. Signature
I think you are wrong here. We are talking about today, not 1789.
A captains orders are what they are.I dont believe that a lot of discretion is given to commercial vessels that want to battle the pirates. Even if hewins, I think the captain would be fired at least.
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 06:01 am
@glitterbag,
After having spent 24 years in the Navy, I think I know more about it then you do.

Quote:
Several have been taken for years, our navy personnel held as prisoners


The last one that I know of was the USS Pueblo, under the command of Capt. Pete Bucher.
The USS PUEBLO, which was captured by the North Koreans in 1968, was the first U.S. Navy ship to be hi-jacked on the high seas by a foreign military force in over 150 years.
It was also the last.

Quote:
What happened when the USS Cole was attacked


Nothing, because we had a President that had no balls, and he passed the problem on instead of retaliating like he should have.
But on a smaller level, things did happen.
The first naval ship on the scene to assist the stricken Cole was the Royal Navy Type 23 frigate, HMS Marlborough, under the command of Capt Anthony Rix, RN. She was on passage to the UK after a six-month deployment in the Gulf. Marlborough had full medical and damage control teams on board and when her offer of assistance was accepted she immediately diverted to Aden. Eleven of the most badly injured sailors were sent via MEDEVAC to a French military hospital in Djibouti and underwent surgery before being sent to Germany.

The first U.S. military support to arrive was a small group of U.S. Marines from the Interim Marine Corps Security Force Company, Bahrain. The Marines were flown in by P-3 a few hours after the ship was struck. These Marines were followed by a U.S Marine platoon with the 2nd Fleet Antiterrorism Security Team Company (FAST), based out of Yorktown, Virginia. The Marines from 4th Platoon, 2nd FAST arrived on the 13th from a security mission in Doha, Qatar. The FAST platoon secured the USS Cole and a nearby hotel that was housing the U.S. Ambassador to Yemen.

The destroyer's rules of engagement, as approved by the Pentagon, kept its guards from firing upon the small boat loaded with explosives as it neared them without first obtaining permission from the Cole's captain or another officer.
They did not need to get the Presidents permission, the Capt had the authority to open fire at anytime if he had felt his ship was in danger.
But since it was a surprise attack, they reacted to late.
Having been to the port of Aden myself, it was nothing unusual for small boats to approach our ships, selling souvennirs, food, fruits and anything else they thought they could sell.
On 19 January 2001, The U.S. Navy completed and released its Judge Advocate General Manual (JAGMAN) investigation of the incident, concluding that Cole's commanding officer Commander Kirk Lippold "acted reasonably in adjusting his force protection posture based on his assessment of the situation that presented itself" when Cole arrived in Aden to refuel. The JAGMAN also concluded that "the commanding officer of Cole did not have the specific intelligence, focused training, appropriate equipment or on-scene security support to effectively prevent or deter such a determined, preplanned assault on his ship" and recommended significant changes in Navy procedures. In spite of this finding, Lippold was subsequently denied promotion and retired at the same rank of commander in 2007.

Quote:
How about the Marine Barracks in Beirut


How about it?
That was my first overseas assignment.
It was in 1983, and I had been in the navy for 4 years at the time.
I was not in the barracks at the time, I was escorting a sick marine to the USS Iwo Jima, on station off the coast.

BTW, The first season of American Idol premiered on June 11, 2002.

Quote:
why should we spend too much time thinking about dead Americans who after all signed up on their own free will


You dont have to if you choose not to, thats the beauty of this country.
I choose to, because I am a veteran and those men were my brothers.
I realize you dont understand that, but any veteran would.

Quote:
Let's go shopping. Does that work for you mysteryman?????


No, because I hate going shopping.
If however it makes you feel better, then by all means do go shopping.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2009 06:03 am
@farmerman,
I wasnt talking about commercial vessels.
A military vessel operates under different rules then a civilian vessel.
In the US Navy, a ships capt has the authority to do whatever is required to protect his ship and crew, he doesnt need presidential approval.
0 Replies
 
 

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