I cheated once!!

@vikorr,

vikorr, you are a stupid dick.

1 Reply

@contrex,

I disagree with that. vikorr's posts on this matter don't seem to me to justify such an assertion.

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Hi Spendius, I'm not particularly worried by Contrex's response.

Hello Contrex,

You made the assertion that :

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A sensible girl would not marry such a guy. (one that is a SLEAZEBAG, and DISHONEST)

I notice you didn't respond to things I said, other than to call names. Let me ask it clearly then :
- have you never lied?
- have you ever thought of having sex with a woman who wouldn't invite such thoughts?
- have you ever pictured a woman naked who wouldn't invite such images in your mind?

If you are going to cast assertions around, first make sure you aren't guilty of the same thing - otherwise you find yourself becoming a hypocrite. Let people be human Smile

1 Reply

@aidan,

aidan wrote:

If I did the same thing - I'd HAVE to tell - as in - I couldn't walk around for fifty years and look the guy in the eye with a lie under my belt.

Yes, but that was my point. Your guilt should be your cross to bear, not your partner's.

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Tell her - it's her right to know- and it's your responsibility to live with the consequences of your actions.

Right? What right? Have vows of forsaking all others been taken before the wedding? I must have missed that somewhere.

1 Reply

@vikorr,

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Hi Spendius, I'm not particularly worried by Contrex's response.

I never thought you might be. It was my way of voting. If we don't vote the extremists take over because they always vote.

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@JPB,

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Yes, but that was my point. Your guilt should be your cross to bear, not your partner's.

Or maybe there could be an open and honest relationship which wouldn't entail either partner carrying around guilt for the entire marriage.
I have to say that I think I'd prefer that to the scenario in which one partner is oblivious to what is happening in HER OWN LIFE - while the other partner can't look her in the eye really, because he feels so bad about what he's done, but also can't manage to give her the respect of telling her the truth about what he's done even though it may affect her life negatively for the duration of their time together.
(Lies and secrets do tend to affect a relationship negatively - overtly and covertly - whether they're lies of ommission or commission).

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Right? What right? Have vows of forsaking all others been taken before the wedding? I must have missed that somewhere.

The right to be aware of what is happening in her own life. People can get as technical as they want about when the commitment and monogamy may start, if ever. It's immaterial to me whether these people are faithful to each other or not, even after the vows are said. In fact, I think I'm the one who said I'd rather be married to a truthful adulterer than a lying one- the point being that I can deal with the truth a lot better than I can deal with a lifetime of lies- even if the lifetime of lies permits the illusion of faithfulness and the truth includes unfaithfulness.

Have the respect for the woman to let her in on the whole picture about HER OWN LIFE! Don't assume for her that she's better off deluded and then try to salve your own conscience by saying, 'I don't want to hurt her - I'll be the martyr- I'll **** around and keep it all to myself - because I love her SO much...' What a bunch of bullshit

1 Reply

@aidan,

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Have the respect for the woman to let her in on the whole picture about HER OWN LIFE! Don't assume for her that she's better off deluded and then try to salve your own conscience by saying, 'I don't want to hurt her - I'll be the martyr- I'll **** around and keep it all to myself - because I love her SO much...' What a bunch of bullshit

There are three entities to consider here, her, him and the marriage. It is not all about what she might think that she deserves. If telling her about the cheating would reasonably be expected to hurt her and/or the marriage then not telling her is an available and reasonable choice. When we are in a union we do gain some rights to do what we think is best for our mate, and we always have the right to do what we think is best for our marriage. It goes without saying that we have the right to do what we think is best for ourselves.

Only if the marriage ground rules are complete truthfulness always is the cheater obligated to tell what they have done. And only if the mate has a history of following the honesty clause.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

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It is not all about what she might think that she deserves.

Well that's not even a consideration apparently. She doesn't get to decide what she deserves in this scenario.
My question is, why does her partner get to decide what she does and doesn't deserve and why doesn't he respect her enough to think that she deserves to know the truth?

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we always have the right to do what we think is best for our marriage

Well, 0kay, I can go along with that. And maybe outside dalliances are what is best for a marriage (in the long run) in some peoples' worlds.
But 'marriage' implies that there are two equal partners. But if the partners are each walking around with varying amounts of pertinent and factual information about their OWN relationship - that doesn't seem quite fair or equal to me.

Where does the need for all this patriarchal 'protection' of another adult who's supposed to be an equal come in? Why is it even necessary? If you want to protect a loved one - don't do **** to hurt them in the first place.

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Only if the marriage ground rules are complete truthfulness always is the cheater obligated to tell what they have done. And only if the mate has a history of following the honesty clause.

I have no comment to make on this except that if you're gonna start a marriage out on a lie - good luck to you for the rest of your lives.
Maybe this girl didn't know she NEEDED to specify that there needed to be an 'honesty clause'.
More's the pity for her I guess.

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@aidan,

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My question is, why does her partner get to decide what she does and doesn't deserve and why doesn't he respect her enough to think that she deserves to know the truth?

Making our best effort to protect our mates from harm and to build a strong marriage are acts of respecting our mates. The concept of consensual relationship insists upon full disclosure, but those who live in the real world already know that full disclosure is a fantasy in intimate relationship. Once we learn that it no longer makes sense to unleash harm on our mates and marriage trying to chase the impossible dream.

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Where does the need for all this patriarchal 'protection' of another adult who's supposed to be an equal come in? Why is it even necessary? If you want to protect a loved one - don't do **** to hurt them in the first place.

If the mate never finds out about the cheating then their is no harm to them directly. The cheating can either help or hurt the marriage, depending upon it effect on the cheater, which will effect the mate indirectly. We always protect out mates, it does not run only in one direction. When the woman does not tell her man something because she thinks it will bruise his ego she is acting to protect him by not telling him the truth, so lets not bash men, OK?

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I have no comment to make on this except that if you're gonna start a marriage out on a lie - good luck to you for the rest of your lives.
Maybe this girl didn't know she NEEDED to specify that there needed to be an 'honesty clause'.
More's the pity for her I guess.

Those who are always honest are said to be without social grace, because human social interaction works poorly without tack full consideration of the other persons well being. Why do you think a marriage partner deserves less consideration then a friend or an coworker?

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@aidan,

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But 'marriage' implies that there are two equal partners. But if the partners are each walking around with varying amounts of pertinent and factual information about their OWN relationship - that doesn't seem quite fair or equal to me.

Actually, I rather like the notion of equality in a marriage, but it's one I rarely see. Usually one person 'wears the pants in the family'. Relationships are about fairness in a healthy relationship - if one partner has cheated, it's not at it's healthiest....it could give the impression of health, and it could even improve from a rather low level of health, but it could be described at very healthy.

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@vikorr,

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Actually, I rather like the notion of equality in a marriage, but it's one I rarely see. Usually one person 'wears the pants in the family'. Relationships are about fairness in a healthy relationship - if one partner has cheated, it's not at it's healthiest....it could give the impression of health, and it could even improve from a rather low level of health, but it could be described at very healthy

A relationship that works is one where both get what they want/need. This stuff about fairness and equality are flavors that some people like/want/need, but those who do have no right to demand that everyone else like/want/need the same thing.

1 Reply

It looks like Christian morality can sink into the bone marrow of even those who deny being Christian. Add the spice of Romanticism and here you are.

If having "cheated" once, and where on earth does a word like "cheated" come from, is a problem we are talking about the ball and chain. And monopolies. It might be that the best advice is not to marry anybody who is fanciable by a member of the opposite sex.

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@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye said:

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A relationship that works is one where both get what they want/need. This stuff about fairness and equality are flavors that some people like/want/need, but those who do have no right to demand that everyone else like/want/need the same thing.

I'm not talking about cheating - I'm talking about lying.

If you expect people to be honest with you - you should expect that they'd probably appreciate you being honest with them.

If she never finds out about the cheating - yeah - job done- you got it by her. But if she does find out about it and from someone else - the hurt is compounded.

And as I said, I can understand how people might want to have sex with other people once in a while. But if you have a contract with someone that includes honesty - as most marriages are supposed to - do your deal, whatever works for you, but don't lie about it.

And if it's okay for you to lie to her - you better accept that it's okay for her to lie to you - about ANYTHING....right?

If a person wants to be treated as lesser than - of course that's their right and privilege. I'm just saying - give the girl the option of saying that that's how she wants to be treated. Don't just assume.

And I'm not bashing guys. In general I like and trust guys moreso than women-precisely because they're usually more upfront.

Spendius said:

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It might be that the best advice is not to marry anybody who is fanciable by a member of the opposite sex.

But Spendius - if a girl isn't attractive to any other guy - you better be one hell of a unique fellow to find her attractive yourself.
Unless the most attractive thing in a relationship is complete and utter ownership- in that the poor girl is yours only because no one else wants her.
And I guess some people might find that idea in and of itself attractive - sort of like those people who keep someone prisoner so no one else can have them.
And here you are talking about a ball and chain - sounds like you'd chain her to you yourself.

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@vikorr,

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Actually, I rather like the notion of equality in a marriage, but it's one I rarely see. Usually one person 'wears the pants in the family'. Relationships are about fairness in a healthy relationship - if one partner has cheated, it's not at it's healthiest....it could give the impression of health, and it could even improve from a rather low level of health, but it could be described at very healthy.

I just like the notion of equality in general. And by that I don't mean that everyone is treated the same, because as I stated - different people enjoy and expect different treatment.
Some people like to wear the pants -- others don't--some like total monogamy- other don't.

By equality, I mean that my wishes bear as much weight and are respected as much as my partners.
Not more - not less. It takes cooperation and respect and its very difficult to achieve in a marriage.
But if someone starts out a marriage or relationship with the belief that their wishes reign supreme and they make assumptions about another person's wishes without even ascertaining what they are...that's not equality or respect.
And you can't ascertain what a person's reaction to something is or will be unless s/he knows in truth what exactly has happened.

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A relationship that works is one where both get what they want/need. This stuff about fairness and equality are flavors that some people like/want/need, but those who do have no right to demand that everyone else like/want/need the same thing.

Did I demand something?

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If you expect people to be honest with you - you should expect that they'd probably appreciate you being honest with them.

I disagree on a matter of expectation " when they are honest with themselves, and comfortable with who they are, then they have little reason to be dishonest with you...but not, no reason.

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And as I said, I can understand how people might want to have sex with other people once in a while. But if you have a contract with someone that includes honesty - as most marriages are supposed to - do your deal, whatever works for you, but don't lie about it.

Really? I don’t recall ever hearing honesty vows in any marriage ceremony (of course there are many reasons to expect honesty, but you claim it's contracted)

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And if it's okay for you to lie to her - you better accept that it's okay for her to lie to you - about ANYTHING....right?

You do understand that most partners will lie to the other occasionally...women may lie to you about what they’ve bought / how much they’ve spent...does that mean Men suddenly have free range to lie to her about anything and everything they’ve done?

1 Reply

@vikorr,

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A relationship that works is one where both get what they want/need. This stuff about fairness and equality are flavors that some people like/want/need, but those who do have no right to demand that everyone else like/want/need the same thing

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Did I demand something?

you asked.
Just to be clear - Hawkeye wrote the bolded quote above.

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I disagree on a matter of expectation " when they are honest with themselves, and comfortable with who they are, then they have little reason to be dishonest with you...but not, no reason.

I don't understand the last phrase (in bold) or your sentence.

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Really? I don’t recall ever hearing honesty vows in any marriage ceremony (of course there are many reasons to expect honesty, but you claim it's contracted)

You may be right - I was only married once and it was a long time ago- so maybe I'm not recalling the exact wording - there was something about being 'true to' though (I think) and I would think that would include honesty (at least in my mind). But again - I'm sure one could find all sorts of techincalities and loopholes to wiggle through if they wanted to.

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You do understand that most partners will lie to the other occasionally...women may lie to you about what they’ve bought / how much they’ve spent...does that mean Men suddenly have free range to lie to her about anything and everything they’ve done?

It's funny the lies you ascribe to women - as if certain sorts of lies are more gender specific. I wonder though - do you think a woman is more apt to lie about how much she's spent on her manicure than a man is to lie about how much he spent on how many pints at the pub?

It's all six of one or half dozen of another. I don't think people are totally honest - no- but if someone has six pints and tells me he has five pints- that's a little different than saying, 'I've forsaken all others' when he's just had sex with someone else the night before the wedding....

Just say for goodness sake - 'I slipped, I fucked up'...or even 'I did this because I felt like it'. Give the partner the opportunity to know who you really are and who she's marrying.
I don't think anyone can reasonably expect perfection from anyone. Maybe she's lived enough to realize that.

I just wouldn't start out any relationship on such deceptive footing.

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@aidan,

It is difficult to imagine a more deceptive footing than to have drawn this sort of conclusion from anything I have written either here or anywhere else.

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But Spendius - if a girl isn't attractive to any other guy - you better be one hell of a unique fellow to find her attractive yourself.
Unless the most attractive thing in a relationship is complete and utter ownership- in that the poor girl is yours only because no one else wants her.
And I guess some people might find that idea in and of itself attractive - sort of like those people who keep someone prisoner so no one else can have them.
And here you are talking about a ball and chain - sounds like you'd chain her to you yourself.

Your problem is a linguistic one. You identify concepts such as honesty with some vague zone of abstraction rather that with actual human characteristics. Anyone following such a method to the letter would be unbearable and if it is not followed to the letter there is some picking and choosing going on which is certain to be subjective and hence dishonest.

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@spendius,

oh, is that why you're not playing acronyms anymore?

1 Reply

@aidan,

I am playing acronyms. I just can't do RESPLENDENT to the standard that is required in such a prestigious corner of A2K.

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There seems to be a lot of talk about delusion and dishonesty here re a mate in a committed relationship not divulging his or her sexual experiences in the past.

If partners agree on divulging as a good thing, then divulging is fine, however wise or unwise. I don't think partners by vows formal or informal somehow own each other from there on out, much less own each others' pasts. What is owed is straightforward information about sexually transmissible disease, stds, and the fulfillment of promises decided between the parties about future behavior.

I also agree with JPB re the telling being a way to deposit the wretchedness of one's guilt onto the non-guilty party, those being my words for what JPB said.

As for the original poster here, I didn't catch that any vows had been made. I did express that perhaps the poster isn't ready for a lifetime commitment (of no sex with others).

Complicating matters, though, when I posted earlier in the thread I had forgotten for the moment that HIV may take the long time that Vikorr mentioned to show up on tests, thus I see that in this situation, if he acted sans condom, he really should not just be avoiding sex with his girlfriend until tested, but at the least be using condoms with her, and to accomplish that, if they are not already using condoms, may involve some level of explaining the caution.

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I cheated once!!

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