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Class warfare and the Left

 
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Mar, 2009 05:36 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

parados wrote:

You might want to check the historical tax rates before you go off on your "threatening our very liberty" jag.

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php

You will see that from 1944 until 1963 the highest rate was near or over 90% and was as high as 92% for part of that time.

Yeah, Eisenhower was a commie.


yes. clearly he hated america and all it stood for. Very Happy he also warned of the military / industrial complex. a concept that the last administration embraced like a baby to a mother's breast.

i hear a lot of people who question whether or not $250k is a very large amount of money. okay fair enough. but let's look at the average american's paycheck.

Quote:
The 2008 Current Population Survey Annual Social and Economic Supplement (CPS ASEC) reveals the following results for the nation:
Regions

Between 2006 and 2007, real median household income rose in the Midwest ($50,277) and the South ($46,186), declined in the Northeast ($52,274) and remained statistically unchanged in the West ($54,138).
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/012528.html


but to address alv's concern. as i understand it, the tax to those with a personal income of $250k or more is 33% for 2008. the percentage for those making $54k ? 25% for 2008. an 8 point spread. so, the average worker making $54,000 dollars will pay 25% of his income to the feds. the non-average worker making over $250,000 will pay 33% for 2008.

so... the guy making nearly 5 times more than the average joe will pay only 8 points more to the fed while receiving all of the same basic benefits of being a citizen of the united states. not to mention that, generally, people with above average incomes also receive some tax exemptions that others don't.

to put that in perspective; an income of $8,025 is taxed at %10. between $8k and $32.5k is taxed at 15%. between $32.5 and $78.9 is taxed at 25%. between $78.9 and $165k is at 28% and finally, $165k to $358k is 33%. for 2008

the person with an income above $358k pays taxes at a rate of 35% for 2008. the person making at least 44 times more than a person at the 10% tax rate pays only 23% more.

i don't see that as being excessive taxation. but then maybe i think about taxes differently. i see income tax as the payment of commission to the agency that largely makes it possible for me to actually pursue my goals in life. "how so ???" they cried out !

uncle sam provides me with a relatively safe country to live in. also provides nice highways to drive on. a lot of the electricity that powers my computer comes from the federally funded hoover dam. the country i live in has, arguably, the best equipped and trained military on earth. occasionally, the united states does exceedingly cool stuff, too. like landing the first man on the moon. or something that every citizen will most likely need at least once in their life..., a medicine, treatment or operation. often made possible by research funding provided, at least in part, by the federal government.

if the above does not save your life ? well, the federal government ( or a local government likely receiving some ferderal funding) isn't gonna leave your now lifeless meat suit laying around for people to trip over. heck, even poor folks get a proper burial.

all of this costs money. unless we've been whisked away to some norquistian utopia where we can have everything and pay nothing. i believe i would have noticed if that had happened.

okayyyyyy.... now that we've looked at that good stuff, there's are questions i'd like to ask all of those on a2k who are complaining so bitterly about potential raised taxes;

1) do you personally earn a net income in excess of $250,000 per year ?

2) do have a realistic reason to believe that you will earn a net income in excess of $250,000 /y in the course of the next 5 years ? ten years ? 15 years ?

3) what is your age this year?


if you are over 30 and only making an average of $54k per year, i really don't see how you can expect that you will be making over $250k anytime soon. but let's say that in 10 years, you finally achieve the magical $250 k per year. yayyyy!!!!

problem is, in 10 years $250,000 will not have the same buying power that it does today.


so really, if a person is not making the "magical" $250,000 per year, with no realistic expectation to make that, or a corresponding value in "future" dollars, what is the real complaint ?

if a person is in the 95% that is supposed to get some tax breaks and you are complaining about what will not effect you in a bad way, are you just complaining on an ideological level ? "i don't like anything about dems, liberals, progressives, secularists, feminists, patty smith or keith olbermann, so i'm going to cut off my nose to spite my face."

there's something that's not logical about that scenario.

DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Mar, 2009 05:36 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Have you heard the latest tax rules?

Anyone who receives a bonus has to file using form 1040FU.

Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Mar, 2009 07:11 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
but to address alv's concern. as i understand it, the tax to those with a personal income of $250k or more is 33% for 2008. the percentage for those making $54k ? 25% for 2008. an 8 point spread. so, the average worker making $54,000 dollars will pay 25% of his income to the feds. the non-average worker making over $250,000 will pay 33% for 2008.

so... the guy making nearly 5 times more than the average joe will pay only 8 points more to the fed while receiving all of the same basic benefits of being a citizen of the united states. not to mention that, generally, people with above average incomes also receive some tax exemptions that others don't.

Actually, it's not 8% more. 33% is the marginal tax rate, so the first 165K is still taxed at 25%. Only the portion 165K+ is taxed at 33%.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 02:20 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

so... the guy making nearly 5 times more than the average joe will pay only 8 points more to the fed while receiving all of the same basic benefits of being a citizen of the united states. not to mention that, generally, people with above average incomes also receive some tax exemptions that others don't.

Actually, it's not 8% more. 33% is the marginal tax rate, so the first 165K is still taxed at 25%. Only the portion 165K+ is taxed at 33%.


so then there is even less to gripe about then, no ? Smile
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Apr, 2009 02:29 pm
Big deal! The top bracket rate for the super-rich will go from 35 % to 39.6 %, the latter being the rate under Clinton. We have always had an ability to pay system that calls for graduated rates.

If we continue (and it looks like we will) to allow this fast-growing plutocracy in the USA, we will soon have a Chavez or a Castro in this country, or other terrible things.

And please spare us the nonsense that the super-rich really earn what they get. Most are heirs clipping coupons, or CEO's making 1,000 times more than the average worker in their corporation.
0 Replies
 
 

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