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Would it have been possible for Jesus to have sinned?

 
 
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 11:02 am
If so, to whom was he obedient? (Hebrews 5: 8)

If not, what was the purpose of his temptation? (Matthew 4: 1-11)
 
View best answer, chosen by neologist
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 11:52 am
@neologist,
Before I respond to your question, Neo, I want to put it out there that I would argue that it may well be impossible for anyone, Jesus or anyone else, truly to “sin.”

“Sin” pretty much implies doing something that offends a GOD"or something that defies the dictates of a GOD.

By that definition, if there are no GODS...nobody is ever sinning.

Even if there is a GOD...I can easily magine the GOD would not set up rules...or have items of human conduct that would offend or please IT. So in that case, no sinning could occur either.

If there is a GOD...and if the GOD has expectations of humans and if there is human conduct that would offend the GOD...or run counter to what the GOD says offends IT...anyone doing those things would be sinning.

Of course, if you define “sinning” as disobeying what a person THINKS to be the will of a GOD the person THINKS exists...or doing something the person SUPPOSES to be a thing that offends a GOD the person THINKS exists...then you have a different cup of tea. Sinning can occur under those circumstances.

Apparently, Jesus was convinced that the GOD of the Old Testament DID EXIST...and that the rules the GOD supposedly gave to Moses...actually are the RULES OF THAT GOD...and that the things the god said offended IT...actually offended IT.

Since that is so...and if the many Christians who claim the teachings of Jesus make homosexual conduct acceptable are correct...

...then Jesus DID sin.

By teaching that one should show compassion, love, and empathy for homosexuals...if in fact he did...he was teaching that it is okay to offend the GOD.

That seems to be sin.


fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 01:07 pm
Googling "Did Jesus Sin" yields 685,000 entries.
What fun ! Smile
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 02:09 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Good to see you back, Frank.

I knew you couldn't stay away. Wink
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 02:16 pm
@neologist,
Good to be back, Neo.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 02:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Anytime yer in Seattle or nearby, the coffee's on me.
George
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 05:48 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Anytime yer in Seattle or nearby, the coffee's on me.

I'd recommend using one of those cover thingies.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 05:51 pm
here's a real mind blower, could god create a sin so vile that jesus couldn't forgive it Shocked

think about it dude

and pass that bong
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 06:00 pm
@neologist,
Jesus was supposedly God in Human form. The saying goes "To err is human to forgive Divine." Jesus could not be human if he didn't err i.e. sin and since he forgave those who crucified him that would make him Divine.

I am funning with you as I don't believe he is God at all but transformed society in a fundamental humane way.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 06:19 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
I am funning with you as I don't believe he is God at all but transformed society in a fundamental humane way.


Which is as good a God as you're ever going to find.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 06:30 pm
Well, isn't a sinless Jesus sort of central to the whoe idea of Christianity?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 06:51 pm
@George,
Laughing
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 06:56 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Well, isn't a sinless Jesus sort of central to the whoe idea of Christianity?
Well, yeah; but could he have sinned; did he have free will?
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 07:26 pm
@neologist,
Well, He could have sinned if he so chose. If He had sinned we would not have Christianity as we know it. I know, I know... some would think that would be a good thing.

Nice to see you Neo
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2009 07:48 pm
@Intrepid,
How does that wash with the idea that Jesus is God?

Good to be back, although eBay is taking a great deal of my time.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 07:41 am
@Intrepid,
Quote:
Well, He could have sinned if he so chose. If He had sinned we would not have Christianity as we know it. I know, I know... some would think that would be a good thing.


My first inclination, Intrepid, was to simply put a smiley emoticon after this quote...and leave it at that.

But another thought occurs to me.

It is entirely possible that Jesus did “sin” from time to time...and (unfortunately, in my opinion) Christianity (as we know it) still came into existence.

In fact, it is entirely possible that Jesus was NOT god or divine in any way...and we still ended up with Christianity (as we know it).

In fact, considering Christianity (as we know it) it seems more likely to me that Jesus was not divine...and that, as a human (and supposing there is a God for whom human conduct is important) he did sin from time to time.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 07:58 am
It was common in those days to think of people as gods. The Egyptians, the Greeks and the Romans all thought that way at some time or other about different people. It's a tradition. A metaphor nowadays.

Prof. Pomeroy wrote-

Quote:
The most extraordinary honors bestowed on the women of the imperial court were those implying that they were goddesses. In their lifetime both Livia and Julia, the wife and daughter of the first emperor, were termed divine in the provinces, and a temple was erected in honor of Livia and her son Tiberius by the cities of Asia.


It was commonplace. Had these people had a message to save the human race, which they decidedly did not, they might be divine yet.

Augustus was deified. It helps maintain society. Cynics have a duty to offer an alternative way of doing that. Scoffing is cheap and easy.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 08:43 am
@spendius,
Quote:
It was commonplace. Had these people had a message to save the human race, which they decidedly did not, they might be divine yet.


Yes it was commonplace to do that. But I question your second sentence, Spendius.

Did you mean “...they might be divine yet.”...or did you mean, “...they might STILL BE CONSIDERED divine?”

Jesus is still considered divine by some. I'm sure you agree...that does not mean he is or was divine.

Quote:
Augustus was deified. It helps maintain society. Cynics have a duty to offer an alternative way of doing that. Scoffing is cheap and easy.


Not sure anyone was “scoffing”...but are you suggesting that the only way to “maintain society” is to consider some people to be gods???
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 09:44 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Did you mean “...they might be divine yet.”...or did you mean, “...they might STILL BE CONSIDERED divine?”


I suppose I meant both. They never were actually divine. But we do have the month of August and augustan institutions. (Don't laugh) It serves a purpose.

Quote:
Not sure anyone was “scoffing”...but are you suggesting that the only way to “maintain society” is to consider some people to be gods???


Not at all. Society can be maintained in lots of different ways. I'm thinking in terms of best way for now, for us, and in the immediate future. None of the atheists will ever offer any suggestions. I don't think they have any. They just want to be atheists. A sort of conceit when promoted. At least the Communists gave it a try. You have to admire them for that. But they did replace a terrible system under the Tsars. I don't think our system is remotely comparable. We find waterboarding repugnant. They broke people on the wheel in public for next to nothing.

Stalin was almost deified and many people say that our cult of celebrity is a search for people to look up to. A Divine Father in the sky disinterestedly "paring His fingernails", as Joyce put it, seems a reasonable idea.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:02 am
Hmm.

My intent here was to pry a few responses from those who consider themselves trinitarians.

If Jesus were God, how could he sin?
How could he be obedient?
To whom would he pray?
Who resurrected him.
Stuff like that.

Ya never know.
 

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