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Would it have been possible for Jesus to have sinned?

 
 
alguyton
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:16 am
@neologist,
Well this question is simply irrelevant for anyone who does not agree with the faith but if you do believe in Jesus, you would have the share knowledge that Jesus could have sinned because he was all human but did NOT sin because he was also divine. It is a concept that all or at least most non believers cannot seem to grasp which makes sense because if they did grasp that concept, they would be believers
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:25 am
@alguyton,
alguyton wrote:

. . . Jesus could have sinned because he was all human but did NOT sin because he was also divine. It is a concept that all or at least most non believers cannot seem to grasp which makes sense because if they did grasp that concept, they would be believers
Angels also are divine; yet some of them sinned in spite of their accurate knowledge. (James 2:19)

Jesus did not sin because he loved his father.
alguyton
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:25 am
@neologist,
Jesus was both God and The son of God so while he was on earth he was in the body of JEsus, lived as human, felt as human, wept and prayed as human, prayed to God. He was murdered and reserected but the divine power of God. rose to heaven and became a part of God once again. Just like the relationship between a mother and her child could be few that she has a part of herself in the child that is also seperated from her but does not change the fact that they have the common genes. The only difference would be that instead of 2 contributing sources (mom,dad) there was just Dad or God so instead of his son being a part of him and a part of his mother, He was a whole part of his father. If that made sense to you.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:31 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Angels also are divine; yet some of them sinned in spite of their accurate knowledge. (James 2:19)


I've never thought of angels as divine. Gotta think that over a bit. If they are...that means the mythology suggests that divine beings can sin.




Quote:
Jesus did not sin because he loved his father.


And you know that...how????

Or is it a guess?
alguyton
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 10:41 am
@alguyton,
Meant to say "viewed" and not "few"....(relationship between a mother and her child could be few that she has a part....)
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 06:24 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The word “angel” actually comes from the Greek word aggelos, which means “messenger.” The matching Hebrew word mal'ak has the same meaning.

The fallen angels were cohorts of Satan. Angels are said to be spirits, not of human form unless they wish to appear as such. Or, so it appears in scripture.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 06:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Angels also are divine; yet some of them sinned in spite of their accurate knowledge. (James 2:19)


I've never thought of angels as divine. Gotta think that over a bit. If they are...that means the mythology suggests that divine beings can sin.

(neo's comment) YUP!


Quote:
Jesus did not sin because he loved his father.


And you know that...how????

Or is it a guess?
Just a guess, Frank. Just a guess. . ..
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 06:45 pm
@alguyton,
alguyton wrote:

Jesus was both God and The son of God so while he was on earth he was in the body of JEsus, lived as human, felt as human, wept and prayed as human, prayed to God. He was murdered and reserected but the divine power of God. rose to heaven and became a part of God once again. Just like the relationship between a mother and her child could be few that she has a part of herself in the child that is also seperated from her but does not change the fact that they have the common genes. The only difference would be that instead of 2 contributing sources (mom,dad) there was just Dad or God so instead of his son being a part of him and a part of his mother, He was a whole part of his father. If that made sense to you.
Not really.

Unless you are prepared to say Jesus had a free will independent of his father.
alguyton
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 10:40 am
@neologist,
I am prepared to say that because he DID. and I know you are going to come back and say all these things about how im wrong and that you know more so your intention wasnt to get a question answered that you werent sure of, you just want to fuel a fire in your own mind that you are right. There isnt any answer that would change your viewpoint because you are set on your answer, so why even ask the question or carry on the conversation? this is pointless and a waste of time.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 10:58 am
@alguyton,
Quote:
this is pointless and a waste of time.
indeed
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 11:21 am
@alguyton,
alguyton wrote:

I am prepared to say that because he DID. and I know you are going to come back and say all these things about how im wrong and that you know more so your intention wasnt to get a question answered that you werent sure of, you just want to fuel a fire in your own mind that you are right. There isnt any answer that would change your viewpoint because you are set on your answer, so why even ask the question or carry on the conversation? this is pointless and a waste of time.
I don't know if you are wrong, actually.

I'm not even sure I understand what you said.

There are many who believe that Jesus is God, that the holy spirit is God and that God himself took human form to live on earth.

None on these fora have yet to provide a rational explanation of how that could be, Neither have any provided reliable scriptural reference.

It's true that I am set in my ways. But I previously was set in a different way only to change. So have at it.
0 Replies
 
tycoon
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 03:42 pm
There are plenty instances of Jesus "sinning" in the Bible, keeping in mind the caveat of whether there is such a thing as sin.

So for instance, one commandment instructs us to honor our mother and father. Yet at Jesus' first miracle--turning water into wine--he snaps at his mother in an most unkind fashion, telling her to mind her own business. That's not very nice. That's got to be a sin. One should treat one's poor mother better than that.

Another time he approached a fig tree, and even though it was out of season for figs, he began cursing the stupid tree. It's not recorded exactly what it was he said. That's probably because it was probably pretty racy, even for the Good Book. That's got to be a sin, don't you think? My mother told me swearing was a sin, and I, being the good son, listened to her and didn't sass her back, unlike Jesus.

There's dozens of sins by Jesus. What we are to make of this troubling fact, especially since he is to be properly viewed as a unblemished lamb sacrificed for the benefit of us reprobates, I'll leave to the real Christian thinkers.
Steve 41oo
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 04:04 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

If so, to whom was he obedient? (Hebrews 5: 8)

If not, what was the purpose of his temptation? (Matthew 4: 1-11)
Would it have been possible for God to have sinned? And quite recently too you know, drowning all those Asians and burning those Australians. Unless such acts are not sinful if committed by an all merciful God.

I think this sort of hypothetical question about the capabilities of a mythical figure for good or ill really is indeed a complete waste of your and my time and I'm ashamed for answering.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 05:10 pm
@Steve 41oo,
Steve 41oo wrote:

neologist wrote:

If so, to whom was he obedient? (Hebrews 5: 8)

If not, what was the purpose of his temptation? (Matthew 4: 1-11)
Would it have been possible for God to have sinned? And quite recently too you know, drowning all those Asians and burning those Australians. Unless such acts are not sinful if committed by an all merciful God.

I think this sort of hypothetical question about the capabilities of a mythical figure for good or ill really is indeed a complete waste of your and my time and I'm ashamed for answering.
I feel your shame.

Coffee?

The fact is that Jesus is not God.

And about all those dead people: not God's responsibility.
The entire world has been in the tank ever since it was hijacked in the Garden of Eden.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 05:23 pm
@tycoon,
Your understanding of scripture is stunning, to say the least.

What Jesus said to his mother was hardly a rebuke. And, he did fulfill her implied wishes.

The cursing of the fig tree requires a little more explaining:

First, not all cursing is 4 letter words; for that, you would have to read Rabsheka's words to Hezekiah in the King James Version - very racy. . .

The fig tree, like many events in the Gospels, is figurative. (No pun intended)
It represented Jesus' opinion of 'religious' people and organizations not bearing fruit. It was a condemnation of the 1st century Hebrews as well as the many churches throughout history who have participated in uncountable acts of bloodshed.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 06:19 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
The fact is that Jesus is not God.


So you are absolutely certain that there is a "GOD"...and that Jesus is not that "GOD"...are you???
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 06:20 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
The entire world has been in the tank ever since it was hijacked in the Garden of Eden.


You do not want to get into this, Neo!
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 06:30 pm
This is what the god of the Bible says you should do to your enemies:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you."
Deuteronomy 20:10

Jesus preached:

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28).

Isn't this disobeying the father...the god...the Godfather?

Doesn't this disobedience qualify as "sin.?"
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 07:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Nope. Jesus wasn't disobedient here. Unlike Neo, some of us believe in the trinity. There was a big change when Jesus became flesh and replaced that which was with that which will be.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 07:14 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
Nope. Jesus wasn't disobedient here. Unlike Neo, some of us believe in the trinity. There was a big change when Jesus became flesh and replaced that which was with that which will be.


Yeah, well Intrepid...as you know...some of us dispute this "big change" notion. And we use as a source...none other than Jesus Christ...who said:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets. I have come, not to abolish them, but to fulfill them. Of this much I assure you; UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, not the smallest letter of the law, not the smallest part of a letter shall be done away with until it all comes true." Matthew 5:17ff

So..unless you are prepared to document that the Earth has "passed away"...this stuff remains unchanged.
 

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