Dear Mr. President

Bi Polar wrote:

If it had been up to me.... I would have stopped Hitler in his tracks before Poland. But I would have done it from the pragmatic view that when things are running well for everyone...then it follows they are running well for me and conversely a huge World War would make things run in a most inconvenient way.
end of Bi Polar quote

Then Bi Polar would not have made the mistake that Chamberlain made. Chamberlain was a PEACE AT ANY COST type. He was foolish enough to think that all he had to do was to talk to Hitler. Hitler conned Chamberlain and said that all he wanted was Czechoslovakia and he needed nothing else.

Hitler invaded Poland on Sept. 1. Chamberlain reminds me of someone else who thinks that you can do business with fanatics like Hitler and that all you have to do is to sit down to talk with them.

Barack Obama

Thanks to Churchill, Great Britain survived, and the allies finally won, and don't give FDR all that much credit either. For all that he did, Europe would have been totally lost by the time he grudgingly got involved.

You r point about reforming a failed system is a good one, Okie,but, Obama has other ideas about spending money on eduction which are really absurd and not at all on target. I outlined the problem with Obama's spending on Education on another thread,but will replicate them here to back up the points made by you and A Lone Voice concerning education.

See Where is the Economy Headed--

The repor tbelow is stunning and shows that Obama will jst be throwing OUR PRECIOUS TAX DOLLARS AWAY ON USELESS ATTEMPTS TO REFORM EDUCATION.

Re: genoves (Post 3567418)
But certainly, taking tax money from hard working citizens to raise standards, as Obama wants us to do will make a difference, won't it? It is only because the poor oppressed students in the inner cities don't get as much money as the rich suburbs that there is any difference in achievement, is that not true?

Yes. Not True.

Note:



Money And School Performance:
Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment
by Paul Ciotti

Paul Ciotti lives in Los Angeles and writes about education.


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Executive Summary

For decades critics of the public schools have been saying, "You can't solve educational problems by throwing money at them." The education establishment and its supporters have replied, "No one's ever tried." In Kansas City they did try. To improve the education of black students and encourage desegregation, a federal judge invited the Kansas City, Missouri, School District to come up with a cost-is-no-object educational plan and ordered local and state taxpayers to find the money to pay for it.

Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil--more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers' salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robotics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.

The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.

The Kansas City experiment suggests that, indeed, educational problems can't be solved by throwing money at them, that the structural problems of our current educational system are far more important than a lack of material resources, and that the focus on desegregation diverted attention from the real problem, low achievement.

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Now, Okie, left wingers like Cyclops can use as many names as they wish but they cannot wash away the kind of failed experiment that occured in Kansas City. A clear cut case( I can give chapter and verse on this one) that PROVED THAT MORE MONEY,TONS OF IT, TONS OF IT, DO NOT RAISE ACHIEVEMENT OF STUDENTS WHO ARE NOT CULTURALLY READY TO GAIN FROM EDUCATION

genoves, a healthy economy is all about the wise allocation of scarce resources to benefit the society the most. Since the government is the worst way of efficiently allocating scarce resources, because central planning is inefficient, government spending will only siphon away more and more of the wealth to be spent more inefficiently. Free markets have been shown to allocate scarce resources much more efficiently, through consumer demand from the bottom up, opposite of central planning. If Obama would read Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics book, he would learn this, and so would all the Democratic congressmen. Meanwhile, the people in charge head off into never never land on a false premise, that government can solve this problem by spending more money. Instead of running the country, they should all resign in disgrace and go back to school.

I'm a musician lone voice...an entertainer...we do well no mattter who or what.... right or left...doesn't matter to me...meet the new boss...same as the old boss.... I'm not a liberal you see... I'm a pragmatist...

Bi-polar, can I respectfully make an observation and perhaps ask a question? Why is that people with liberal viewpoints on issues do not want to be labeled a liberal? Most of your opinions seem to be liberal, so it seems logical that you are. I am not ashamed of being a conservative at all. Liberals all want to be seen as perfectly balanced, moderate, balanced, and now you use "pragmatic." Well, I am pragmatic too, but I see conservative principles to be pragmatic, because they work.

Same principle with liberal news shows, they claim to be unbiased, when they obviously are. Meanwhile conservative pundits proudly say they are conservative, they don't have a problem.

Okie- I just want you to know that the liberals will never be able to counteract fact. I have, at various times, when debating expenditures on schools and the liberals say--"We could have much better students if we only doubled or tripled, etc. the expeniture on schools', met their demands with data about the disasterous Kansas City Education Experiment. If you are interested, or get into a debate on Education spending, google Kansas City Education experiment.

NO ONE HAS EVER REBUTTED ME ON MY KANSAS CITY EVIDENCE.

liberal is a term that you proud conservatives have morphed into a euphemism for anyone who deviates from your way of thinking.

I guarantee you I'm more to the right on some issues than you are.. more to the left on others. also, left and right are meaningless terms because the line defining the center is constantly moving.

I'm neither embarrassed nor ashamed of anything I believe...but I do share the fault of most clear thinkers and that's that we often times have to remind ourselves that just because we think clearly doesn't mean others do.

Let me add that I have many friends who are liberal thinkers but could be defined as conservative politically and friends who are liberal politically but quite closed minded as thinkers.

conservative and liberal have become useless terms.... synonymous with idiot and asshole.

You have an interesting point, one I have thought about.

I guess some libs don't like the term because conservatives have been so successful, and so vicious, in denigrating libs. For instance, conservatives freqently slander libs by labeling them socialists and commies.

Throwing money at private or public schools is foolish. It is especially wasteful where the student comes to school unprepared to learn.

For instance, a kid from a single-parent home, in which the parent doesn't insist that homework be completed, that books be read, etc., is unlikely to learn regardless of the school's physical plant.

I don't think anyone has an answer to this problem.

Being an entertainer, you wouldn't do so well in some of the neighborhoods in Britain, France, or Germany at the moment. Or Detroit, for that matter.

Than again, I can think of some Christian fundamentalist churches I've seen a few years ago where they had influence in the local school board/town council, and you might have a tough time getting hired at a dance.

Depending on your type of entertainment, of course.

But being pragmatic, I'm sure you would just adjust your act, smile wide, and dance for your tokens...

I guess we're done here? You don't seem to want to play anymore.

You asked about uneducated and uninformed, and I responded; nothing to say? Nothing to say re my previous points?

A Lone Voice-- You are wasting your time. You wrote:

You asked about uneducated and uninformed, and I responded; nothing to say? Nothing to say re my previous points?

He can't respond intelligently. He has used up all the vocabulary at his command on this thread. You don't seem to realize. He is named eponymously--bi-polar.

A Lone Voice-- You are wasting your time. You wrote:

You asked about uneducated and uninformed, and I responded; nothing to say? Nothing to say re my previous points?

He can't respond intelligently. He has used up all the vocabulary at his command on this thread. You don't seem to realize. He is named eponymously--bi-polar.

Basically we all just smile and dance for our tokens do we not? But don't worry even the most ignorant and uninformed among us could see and hear the condescension and superiority dripping from and screaming from that sentence.

and as for the stats you present to show how uninformed and ignorant most people are.... it is telling you use those stats to condemn "liberal thought" after those same people gave bush and the conservatives an 8 year run. How'd that work out?

You're just a snotty ****, old buddy.

Actually, I've come to realize you're typical of many of the 'progressives' here.

Lazy, and not very sincere, especially when you're not picking the low hanging fruit.

If you would have the read those links, you would have noticed the second one bashed Bush and those who support him. The book was one you would probably enjoy as a 'progressive', in fact.

Didn't matter to me; it made my point. And being that it pandered to people like you, it would be difficult for you to refute, as 'progressives' tend to do with anything that doesn't support their strict ideology.

You are just a sad old man, caught up in a movement you don't understand.

And the sad thing is, there are so many ignorant idiots out there just like you...

lone voice any time you feel like you can keep up with me...you give it a try and then say I'm lazy. I can outwork andoutlast most 25 year olds and I do. regularly.

PS your mother's a whore.

Lone Voice-"Lazy and not very sincere.. a sad old man caught up in a movement you don't understand."--Your description of Bi Polar---

A perfect description--thank you--I could never had done it better!!

No Answer? No answer to the entire problem but answers to ameliorate the problem. See my post on the Kansas City Schools above. The left wing keeps crying for more money,more money, more money. That will not solve any problem. The Kansas City schools got more than any district had ever received and it still did not improve the schools.

You have, Advocate, touched on part of the problem. Culture--The culture of "victimization". The culture of Political Correctness. The Culture of
Affirmative Action.

If every student in the US imitated our Asian students,most of the problems in Education would be greatly cut down.