4
   

Terror - The clock is ticking...

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 03:55 am
Why don't you read the report, massagato. 1990. North Korea has a nuke. Bush I president. Ronnie and HW dropped the ball. Clinton didn't sign the Agreed Framework until 1994 and as the reports have stated repeatedly, there is no evidence that N>Korea worked on plutonium bombs or reprocessing after that. Clinton held them mostly in check, which Reagan and Bush I clearly didn't.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 04:13 am
Missile development wasn't covered in any agreements. Given the facts: Bush II lumped N. Korea in with Iraq in the "Axis of Evil", and invaded and demolished Iraq; Israel has nukes and brandishes its desire to bomb Iran, is it surprising Iran and North Korea are working on missiles? It's a version of the Mutual Assured Destruction of the Cold War: make the consequences of an invasion or an attack unacceptably high and you deter that attack. The US and Israel rattled the sabers all thru the Bush II administration. All that it did was make those rattled at escalate their defenses to the point that, yes, the cost to us will be very high if we try anything. Brandishing the big stick, as most RATIONAL people see, has been a signal failure. Bush thought he could bully other countries. Turned out he couldn't, and he just made the world more dangerous.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Feb, 2009 06:44 pm
@MontereyJack,
You did not read my post, Monterey Jack. Walter Hinteler himself assured me that "Stern" is a magazine of high integrity.

Try again-

Re: MontereyJack (Post 3566523)
Russian and U.S. intelligence agencies also reportedly have learned of significant
technological advances by North Korea towards nuclear weapons production. On March 10,
1992, the Russian newspaper Argumenty I Fakty (Arguments and Facts) published the text
of a 1990 Soviet KGB report to the Soviet Central Committee on North Korea’s nuclear
program. It was published again by Izvestiya of June 24, 1994. The KGB report asserted
that “According to available data, development of the first nuclear device has been completed
at the DPRK nuclear research center in Yongbyon.” The North Korean Government, the
report stated, had decided not to test the device in order to avoid international detection.
Additionally, there are a number of reports and evidence that point to at least a middle
range likelihood that North Korea may have smuggled plutonium from Russia. In June 1994,
the head of Russia’s Counterintelligence Service (successor to the KGB) said at a press
conference that North Korea’s attempts to smuggle “components of nuclear arms production”
from Russia caused his agency “special anxiety.” In August 1994, members of Germany’s
parliament and Chancellor Kohl’s intelligence coordinator stated that they had been briefed
that a German citizen arrested in May 1994 with a small amount of plutonium, smuggled
from Russia, had connections with North Korea. U.S. executive branch officials have
expressed concern in background briefings over the possibility that North Korea has
smuggled plutonium from Russia. One U.S. official, quoted in the Washington Times, July
5, 1994, asserted that “There is the possibility that things having gotten over the
[Russia-North Korea] border without anybody being aware of it.” The most specific claim
came in the German news magazine Stern in March 1993, which cited Russian
Counterintelligence Service reports that North Korea had smuggled 56 kilograms of
plutonium (enough for 7-9 atomic bombs) from Russia.


****************************************************************

Please cut the nonsense. Read the whole report.

Notice the German Citizen who was arrested in May 1994? Who was president then.
Notice the German News magazine which cited Russian Counterintelligence reports in Marh 1993. Who was President then?

North Korea was getting ready for Nuclear Weapons all through the nineties. Slick Willie entered into an agreement with them in 1995 which they violated

********************************************************************

Now, if as you say,Bush made the world more dangerous, the radical fanatic murdering Muslims have made an error. Instead of striking us mortally on our own ground( the USA) they have waited until a President who has many Muslim relatives and wants to sit down and reason with Ahmadeinejad, is in office. They really should have attacked us sooner, don't you think. The rest of the world won't be happy if they make Obama look bad.

As you may recall, Vice President Biden predicted that there would be a major incident during Obama's first term.

I hope not but as I hope that you know,there are some,like Ahmadeinejad, who believe in the Twelfth Imam. When the Twelfth Imam returns, there will be a global war in which Islam will conquer the rest of the world and place the world under the Caliphate, as Allah has willed!
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 11:45 pm
Considering it's a German magazine reporting a Russian intelligence document, and considering Clinton had been president for at most two months, and considering the lead time in publication, and considering that the 1990 KGB document was actually first reported in 1992, then again in 1994, it's probably another document from the files of the Stasi and the East German state apparatus, which came out slowly for several years after the collapse of East Germany and its reunification with West Germany. Which means it also is reporting something from 1990 or before, i.e. Bush I and Reagan territory.

Also, may I remind you, what the effort was, in the attempt to control plutoniuum, wasTO STOP NORTH KOREA FROM PRODUCING A NUCLEAR BOMB. And according to the material that you yourself produced, maggagato,
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 11:51 pm
Considering it's a German magazine reporting a Russian intelligence document, and considering Clinton had been president for at most two months, and considering the lead time in publication, and considering that the 1990 KGB document was actually first reported in 1992, then again in 1994, it's probably another document from the files of the Stasi and the East German state apparatus, which came out slowly for several years after the collapse of East Germany and its reunification with West Germany. Which means it also is reporting something from 1990 or before, i.e. Bush I and Reagan territory.

Also, may I remind you, what the effort was, in the attempt to control plutoniuum, wasTO STOP NORTH KOREA FROM PRODUCING A NUCLEAR BOMB. And according to the material that you yourself produced, maggagato, NORTH KOREA HAD ALREADY PRODUCED A BOMB IN 1990. Now who was responsible for flubbing the big one? NOT CLINTON, BUT YOUR HEROES BUSH I AND REAGAN. I'm sorry, but Clinton negotiated an agreement with N. Korea that they would stop plutonium production, which was the main worry for producing a bomb, since they already had it, and producing enough enriched uranium is a longer process and much more arduous. AND THE EVIDENCE IS THAT THEY STOPPED PLUTONIUM PRODUCTION AND MADE NO MORE ATTEMPTS TO CONSTURCT A BOMB USING IT. Clinton actually achieved something. Reagan and Bush I did not. Bush II turned N. Korea into a nuclear power.
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 01:08 am
@MontereyJack,
According to your twisted reasoning, Monterey Jack , all of the preparation done by North Korea from 1995 to 2000 when they fooled Clinton, who, instead of paying attention to what was happening in the far east was being serviced by Monica, into thinking that they were NOT PREPARING FOR A LAUNCH. They did launch a satellite on Bush's watch. So he was responsible for it. OK.

Then, following that reasoning, who is responsible for the Iranian satellite?


Note:


Iran launches first domestically produced satelliteOmid launch likely to stoke western fears of missile capabilities
Robert Tait guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 3 February 2009 09.57 GMT Article history
Iran launches Omid satellite Link to this video Iran today claimed it had broken into the global space race after launching the country's first domestically produced satellite into orbit, in a move that will intensify western fears over its missile capabilities.

State television showed footage of the Omid (Hope) satellite being sent into space in a launch clearly timed to mark the 30th anniversary celebrations of the 1979 Islamic revolution.

"In another achievement for Iranian scientists under sanctions, Iran launched its first homemade Omid satellite into orbit," an Iranian TV report said. "It was carried into orbit by Iran-made satellite carrier Safir."

The reports said the Omid was equipped with experimental satellite control devices and power supply systems and was designed for gathering information and testing equipment.

The Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, hailed the launch as a historic event aimed at "expanding monotheism, peace and justice". He said the satellite, which he claimed had telecommunications capabilities, had reached its orbit and had made contact with ground stations, although not all of its functions were active yet.

The launch drew criticism from the Obama administration, with a White House spokesman expressing "acute concern".

"Efforts to develop missile delivery capability, efforts that continue on an illicit nuclear program, or threats that Iran makes toward Israel, and its sponsorship of terror are of acute concern to this administration," the spokesman, Robert Gibbs, said.

While Tehran insists the satellite will enable it to improve phone and internet technology and to track natural disasters, western analysts have warned that it would create the capacity to launch intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Today's launch makes Iran the 11th country to put a satellite into orbit since the Soviet Union launched the first in 1957.

It comes almost exactly a year after Iran launched the Kavosh-I (Explorer-1), a rocket capable of carrying satellites into space. That event, which also marked the opening of an Iranian space centre at an undisclosed desert location, was condemned as "unfortunate" by the US.

It was followed by months of careful rehearsals for today's event, which included the launch of a dummy satellite last August and the firing of a second rocket, the Kavosh-2, into space in November.

Iranian scientists have been working on a space programme for at least a decade. Early efforts involved co-operation with Russia. In October 2005, a Russian rocket launched Iran's first satellite, the Sina-1, which carried photographic and telecommunications equipment.

The announcement of the Omid's launch comes as officials from the US, Russia, Britain, France, Germany and China are due to meet near Frankfurt tomorrw to talk about Iran's nuclear program.

The group has offered Iran a package of incentives if it suspends uranium enrichment and enters into talks on its nuclear program. The UN Security Council has imposed sanctions to pressure Iran to comply.

Speaking at the African Union summit in Addis Ababa, Iran's foreign minister, Manouchehr Mottaki, insisted the country's new satellite was for "peaceful purposes" and said the western powers were intent on depriving it of the latest technological developments.

"Iran's satellite technology is for purely peaceful purposes and to meet the needs of the country," he said. "Satellites are a very essential means of gathering environmental data, climate data... and lots of necessary information that we need for technological, agricultural and economic projects," he said. "The difference between our country and some countries which have these capacities is that we believe science belongs to all humanity. Some people believe that advanced technologies belong to some countries exclusively.

"In Iran's history, in the last 100 years, you cannot point to aggression by Iran against any nation. Iran's people are peace-loving - they want peace with all countries around the world."

*******************************************************************

But no fear, Obama will put on his Chamberlainian derby and carry his umbrella to Tehran and REASON with th
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 01:16 am
@MontereyJack,
Obama will go to Iran to reason with the fanatical Iranian bastards. He knows how to talk to Muslims since he has so many Muslim relatives in Kenya, but, he will discover, as Chamberlain did, that you can't reason with fanatics.

When Iran bombs Israel, we will be obliged to step in. Then despite the horrendous casualties in Israel, the left wing will side with Iran--always true to the left wing mantra--Being a traitor to your country is sometimes a good thing even if people have to die.

See William Ayres--Good friend of Barack Obama for full exegesis!!!
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 01:26 am
@MontereyJack,
You missed this-Monterey Jack.

Early Program

In the early 1950s, North Korea began establishing the institutional base to train personnel for its nuclear development program. The Atomic Energy Research Institute was established along with the Academy of Sciences in December 1952, but the nuclear program did not begin to take-off until North Korea established cooperative agreements with the Soviet Union. Pyongyang signed the founding charter of the Soviet Union's Joint Institute for Nuclear Research in February 1956, and began to send scientists and technicians to the USSR for training shortly thereafter. In 1959, North Korea and the Soviet Union signed an agreement on the peaceful use of nuclear energy that included a provision for Soviet help to establish a nuclear research complex in Yongbyon-kun, North Pyongan Province.
**************************************************************

That would have been during Truman's tenure-Monterey Jack--- Truman, although a great president-Obama couldn't shine his shoes--was responsible for allowing North Korea to proceed with their nuclear development.


0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:15 am
"peaceful use of nuclear energy", massagato? That's power plants.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:27 am
How many countries are running space programs now, massagato? As far as Iran's missile program, I'd say that Israel is largely responsible for it, considering they keep threatening to bomb anybody they don't like, and they have their not so secret nukes to back them up. Remember Israel wanted to attack Iran last year, and Bush in one of his few sensible decisions, when they ran it by him, said no. So it's not Iran bombing Israel that's likely, rather the other way around. If I knew someone had his sights on me, I'd damn sure take steps to make the consequences for him too ruinous to him to keep thinking it. It's MAD all over again, not in a Cold War context this time.

And may I remind you that, in the wake of 9/11, Iran supplies us intelligence to help oust the Taliban and Osama. Bush essentially threw away the olive branch that was offered.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:29 am
@MontereyJack,
If you believe that the savage North Koreans only wanted to set up power plants in the early fifties, you are one of the most naive persons on these threads!
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:32 am
And, Massagato, notice when the North Korean program "really began to take off". 1956. Eisenhower, not Truman, another REPUBLICAN stalwart. Can't blame Clinton, boyo.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:34 am
you really worried that the 12th imam is going to come back to lead in the restoration of the Caliphate, genoves? He'd be, what, something like 1000 years old now? Somehow I don't think that's a threat we really need to stew about, but if you want to continue biting your nails about it, then you go right ahead.
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:40 am
@MontereyJack,
Do you know anything about the IDEA of the Twelfth Imam? Of course, he will not return but a small group( that 's all you need to get hold of a nuclear device) of fanatical extremist Muslims which, if you do your research, includes Ahmadinejad. do BELIEVE it. Their belief, not mine, could be disasterous to Western civilization.
0 Replies
 
genoves
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2009 02:46 am
@MontereyJack,
Do you know anything about the IDEA of the Twelfth Imam? Of course, he will not return but a small group( that 's all you need to get hold of a nuclear device) of fanatical extremist Muslims which, if you do your research, includes Ahmadinejad. do BELIEVE it. Their belief, not mine, could be disasterous to Western civilization.

Note:

Yet, Ahmadinejad’s speeches and actions cannot be understood exclusively in terms of a despotic figure who radicalizes politics for the sake of power. He has chosen to radicalize Iranian politics in a particular way, and one that issues a direct challenge to the underpinnings of the regime. This returns us to Ahmadinejad’s references to the return of the Twelfth Imam. The Hojjatieh’s belief in humans’ power to effect his return, which, to repeat, are unorthodox for Shi’ites, should be of grave concern for everyone. This belief should remind Westerners of a long tradition in the West of millenarians dating back to medieval times, and including even Marxian notions of "immiseration of the proletariat," who believed their religious and ideological activism would inaugurate a new age for humanity. Medieval millenarians, famously documented by Norman Cohn in his The Pursuit of the Millennium: Revolutionary Millenarians and Mystical Anarchists of the Middle Ages, stirred up political chaos in the apocalyptic hope that it would effect the return of Christ. More recent expressions of this "metastatic faith" (to borrow a term from political philosopher Eric Voegelin) include the poison gas attack on the Tokyo subways by members of the Aum Shinrikyo cult and of course the 9/11 attacks that were part of al-Qaeda’s "divine" politics intended to destroy the "dar al-Harb" and pave the way for a worldwide Islamist empire. Political scientist Barry Cooper has documented the apocalyptic core of their "Salafist" violence. Groups like these believe their religious and ideological violence is "altruistic" because it purports to "cleanse" the world of the impure and infidel.
0 Replies
 
 

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