36
   

Plane crashes into Hudson River

 
 
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 07:30 am
Good article with details of what happened after the crash:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/nyregion/17flight.html

I recognize one of the (fairly uncommon) names and the age is about right, so I'm sending out inquiries as to whether it's really the person I have in mind.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 09:16 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

..still wondering about butrflynet's idea of a screen..


A screen made of thick plate armor with a few holes in it would stop bird strikes from damaging jet engine blades; it would also impede air intake to the point the aircraft couldn't take off, not to mention weigh as much as the original engine does to begin with. Here's technical background:

Quote:
Modern jet engines have the capability of surviving an ingestion of a bird. Small fast planes, such as military jet fighters, are at higher risk than big heavy multi-engine ones. This is due to the fact that the fan of a high-bypass turbofan engine, typical on transport aircraft, acts as a centrifugal separator to force ingested materials (birds, ice, etc.) to the outside of the fan's disc. As a result, such materials go through the relatively unobstructed bypass duct, rather than through the core of the engine, which contains the smaller and more delicate compressor blades.


http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Jet-engine
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 09:58 am
Video of plan crash and rescue

http://www.comcast.net/data/fan/html/popup.html?v=1001881408&pl=Comcast/1001497458.xml&launchpoint=Cover&cid=fancover&attr=default_headline&config=/config/common/fan/default.xml
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 10:20 am
I was reading in the German papers that due to the lower wings of the Airbus,
the plane was able to stay afloat longer. Boeing planes have their wings much
higher, thus the plane would have sank immediately.
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 11:05 am
@CalamityJane,
I don't know if that's true, Jane - all the hydroplanes I ever saw had very high wing configurations. The one I used to fly didn't have pontoons, just landed on its belly - and had 2 (two) bilge pumps as essential onboard equipment. It was a single-engine, though, maybe for jets that wouldn't work.
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 11:11 am
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

I was reading in the German papers that due to the lower wings of the Airbus,
the plane was able to stay afloat longer. Boeing planes have their wings much
higher, thus the plane would have sank immediately.


If the German papers are reporting that, then I have lost a good deal of confidence in their honesty and understanding. The density of an airliner is such that it would sink to the wing height of even a midwing aircraft: the fact is that the (say) Boeing 737 wings are mounted only a few feet above the base of the fuselage - well below its centerline - and this difference would be quite immaterial to flotation potential (though it improves the aerodynamic stability of the Boeing models).. If the Airbus had any advantage it would arise from the greater use of carbon filaments in its structure, which yield a lower weight for the same structural strength. However, that advantage exists only relative to the early (1985 and prior) versions of the 737: today's models are roughly similar in construction to those of Airbus.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 11:15 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

I don't know if that's true, Jane - all the hydroplanes I ever saw had very high wing configurations. The one I used to fly didn't have pontoons, just landed on its belly - and had 2 (two) bilge pumps as essential onboard equipment. It was a single-engine, though, maybe for jets that wouldn't work.


A shoulder mounted wing is the most efficient option from the perspectives of structural strength and aerodynamic stability. However it generally leads to an impossible configuration for the design of the landing gear. Shoulder mounted wings are used on seaplanes generally to keep the engines out of the sea spray, and, because they don't have wheels, the landing gear issue doesn't matter.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 12:16 pm
Well, you know the Germans Smile
....but even CBS had a similar report:

Quote:
In this case, the plane that went down Thursday was an Airbus 320, which has a low wing. This allowed most of the fuselage to remain above water, contributing to the aircraft's buoyancy, he said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/16/national/main4726621.shtml
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 12:34 pm
@CalamityJane,
Yeah, but the floor of the passenger compartment is above the upper surface of the wing on both aircraft types. It just doesn't matter.
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 12:47 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Yeah, but the floor of the passenger compartment is above the upper surface of the wing on both aircraft types. It just doesn't matter.


It would matter, if this (higher wings) contributes to the plane sinking faster.
I am still looking for US sources on that, but Boeing being american and
Airbus european, there is a certain extend of bias here, isn't it? Laughing
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 01:10 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

... but Boeing being american and
Airbus european, there is a certain extend of bias here, isn't it? Laughing

Yes there is, and I'm not at all prickly about it ! Wink
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 01:14 pm
@georgeob1,
On the commercial pilot's websites the Boeing fractions are searching for arguments, too, ... ....
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 01:52 pm
Heard a new word on NPR yesterday. This is how they identify what kind of bird hit the plane. Amazing that they get so many samples in a year and we don't have more plane crashes!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99474333
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 10:40 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I was unable to see any of those videos, I think it might be region-restricted. So here it is from youtube in case anyone else can't see it:

dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2009 10:59 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Thank you!

I figured it'd be on Youtube...but hadn't looked yet.

What a perfect setdown.

kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jan, 2009 11:31 am
@Robert Gentel,
Yes, thanks! I KNEW there had to be some video of that landing somewhere!
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 12:34 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
region-restricted
(i ain't restrictin' no videos... no where, no how)
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 12:42 pm
@dlowan,
Same here. Very cool.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2009 03:46 pm
@Region Philbis,
You would if you damn well could.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 12:39 pm
@squinney,
I also heard on TV that the co-pilot stated he saw some large brown birds - maybe that is where the thought of geese.
 

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