62
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 08:22 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Have you no shame making such specious claims.

Your referrals to Jewish history as specious reminds me of holocaust denial.

But at least you justify Israel's annexation of all that land. Israel is not expected to negotiate when the only thing they will get for their trouble is you denying their peace offers.

And the fact that you have no response to my two posts rebutting your falsehoods about Israel shows that you know that what you said about Israel is untrue.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 08:23 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
I stand by my posts.

And Holocaust deniers stand by their Holocaust denial.

It's really ugly the way you take Jewish history and say "that didn't happen".


MontereyJack wrote:
Israeli intransigence in negotiating seriously Palestinian claims over Israeli aggression since 1947 has made peace impossible.

Your shameful denials of Israel's peace offers reminds me of Holocaust denial. Shame on you.

Even though your denial of history is justification for Israel annexing all that land, shame on you anyway.

And the fact that you have no response to my two posts rebutting your falsehoods about Israel shows that you know that what you said about Israel is untrue.
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 11:11 pm
@oralloy,
No rebutals. mT=Yiu as usual have a tkotally twisgted view of history.,
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2020 11:38 pm
@MontereyJack,
Wrong. I rebutted your nonsense, and you clearly have no response to those rebuttals.

My view of history is 100% accurate. That's why you have no response when I rebut your untrue claims.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 03:57 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

If Israel annexes the entire Jordan Valley, there would no longer be any room left for the state to which the Palestinians are entitled. A Middle East peace process would no longer exist.

What's more, the Palestinians are entitled to their Right of Return by various international treaties and resolutions.

A major factor in this conflict is the fact that most nations back the Zionists' denial of this right, and attempt to coerce the Palestinians to renounce it so that the Zionists can have their ethnocentric homeland for the Jews.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 04:13 pm
@revelette1,
Another excellent article by Cole.

Quote:
The occupation practically controls all of the West Bank and enjoys sweeping American support in this regard. The announcement of this annexation is the only remaining step, after consecutive Israeli governments paved its way with policies and procedures over more than half a century. They have seized Palestinian lands, establishment settlements on them and exercised dominance in the name of the ongoing military rule in the West Bank since 1967.

Many people critical of the Zionists' present policy towards the Palestinians only point to the right-wing control of the present ministry, but the truth of the matter is that all of the ministries have seized Palestinan lands to establish their settlements therein immediately proceeding the 1967 war. Levi Eshkol, the Prime Minister at the time of the war was Labor Party (read "left-wing"), began the settlement process with the reestablishment, after the 1967 War, of Kfar Etzion, a Zionist settlement in the West Bank that had been abandoned in 1948.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 04:26 pm
@InfraBlue,
Pardon, the article is by Hossam Shaker.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 04:44 pm
@InfraBlue,
I say deport Area B Palestinians to the Gaza Strip.

The Palestinians can make their precious state from the Gaza Strip alone.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 05:47 pm
@oralloy,
Yeah, sure, trash international law and justice. It's what you do best.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 06:07 pm
@MontereyJack,
Wrong again. International law and justice forbids the Palestinians from waging a perpetual war of annihilation against Israel.

Since the Palestinians don't make peace, they get no land. Since they get no land, they can make their precious state from Gaza alone.

You already know all of this. That's why you have no response when I rebut all your falsehoods about Israel. You know that you are wrong.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 08:05 pm
@oralloy,
International law and covenants forbid annexation of conquered land and return to the state that lost it, guaranteed the right of return fkor refugees, and forbid settlements in conquered land by the conqueror, all of which Israel has violated. Land for peace, the way Israel interprets it is strictly for Israel's benefit and the Palestinians loss. So they don't accept it. Israel unilaterally declared a right of return for anyone with jewish ancestors, no mamteetr how many centuries they'd lived elsewhere, but denied any right of return for Palestinians forced off their lands by the israeli wars. the land for peace plans are shams which purposely deny autonomy to Palestinians, which is why they're rejected, just like jared Kushner's sham "peace
plan which was an instant non-starter.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 08:25 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
International law and covenants forbid annexation of conquered land and return to the state that lost it, guaranteed the right of return for refugees, and forbid settlements in conquered land by the conqueror, all of which Israel has violated.

International law also forbids waging a perpetual war of annihilation against Israel.

If the Palestinians wanted that land, they should have respected international law and made peace with Israel.

They didn't, and now Israel will keep the land for themselves. If the Palestinians want to make a state, they can make it from Gaza alone.


MontereyJack wrote:
Land for peace, the way Israel interprets it is strictly for Israel's benefit and the Palestinians loss. So they don't accept it.

Land for peace would have given the Palestinians land in exchange for making peace.


MontereyJack wrote:
Israel unilaterally declared a right of return for anyone with jewish ancestors, no mamteetr how many centuries they'd lived elsewhere, but denied any right of return for Palestinians forced off their lands by the israeli wars.

Once the land was handed over to the Palestinians, they would have been welcome to return to it.

The only reason why the Palestinians can't return to that land is because they refused to make peace and so did not receive any land.


MontereyJack wrote:
the land for peace plans are shams which purposely deny autonomy to Palestinians, which is why they're rejected,

Your denial of Israel's peace offers reminds me of people who deny the Holocaust.


MontereyJack wrote:
just like jared Kushner's sham "peace plan which was an instant non-starter.

Actually it has started quite well. Annexation of large parts of the West Bank is moving forward as we speak.

I only wish that they would start deporting Palestinians out of Area B.

Your failure to respond to my rebuttal of your falsehoods about Israel shows that you know very well that what you said is untrue.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 09:11 pm
@oralloy,
Yep, your favorite nation state flouts law. that's the nub of the problem.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 09:15 pm
@oralloy,
Your posts, whatever they were, are rebutted. You've just made it abundantly clear why Israelis are considered untrustworthy negotiators. They're gonna take and keep the land no matter what.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 09:15 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Yep, your favorite nation state flouts law. that's the nub of the problem.

Israel has complied with international law and offered the Palestinians land in exchange for making peace.

The only ones who flout the law are the Palestinians who refuse to ever make peace.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 09:16 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Your posts, whatever they were, are rebutted.

Everyone can see quite clearly that you have no response to this post:

https://able2know.org/topic/355218-4526#post-7022137


MontereyJack wrote:
You've just made it abundantly clear why Israelis are considered untrustworthy negotiators. They're gonna take and keep the land no matter what.

Your denial of Israel's peace offers reminds me of people who deny the Holocaust.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 10:57 pm
@oralloy,
the Palestinians and the jews are geneticallyindistinguishable. They are BOTH descendants of the same Canaanites in Canaan. They both have equalvalid claims to the land, except the ancestors of today's Palestinians have been there uninterrupteedly for thousands of years, while the ancestors of most of the present-day Jews lived elsewhere since somewhere between roman times and a couple decades ago. If Jews have a right of return to Palestine, the Palestinains have an equally strong right. Further, Palestinians do not give up their rights under international law because they think with good reason that the Israelis are shafting them. Nor does fighting for their freedom take away their rights.

What you claim is a rebuttal is merely another restatement of your spectacularly biased legally indefensible illogical position. It rebuts nothing.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 11:10 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
the Palestinians and the jews are genetically indistinguishable. They are BOTH descendants of the same Canaanites in Canaan. They both have equal valid claims to the land,

True. I'm surprised to see you say this. I agree.


MontereyJack wrote:
except the ancestors of today's Palestinians have been there uninterrupteedly for thousands of years, while the ancestors of most of the present-day Jews lived elsewhere since somewhere between roman times and a couple decades ago.

Being forced to leave their ancient homeland doesn't deprive them of their right to it.

Consider the artwork that was stolen from Jews in WWII. The original owners or their descendants remain the legitimate owners.


MontereyJack wrote:
If Jews have a right of return to Palestine, the Palestinains have an equally strong right.

Agreed.


MontereyJack wrote:
Further, Palestinians do not give up their rights under international law because they think with good reason that the Israelis are shafting them. Nor does fighting for their freedom take away their rights.

Here you go off course. International law requires the Palestinians to make peace with Israel.

Land for peace does not mean the Palestinians receive land and then continue their endless war of annihilation against Israel.


MontereyJack wrote:
What you claim is a rebuttal is merely another restatement of your spectacularly biased legally indefensible illogical position. It rebuts nothing.

It rebuts your untrue claim that I was relying on history that only starts in 1967. Israel's history in the region goes back to the very beginning.

The fact that international law requires the Palestinians to make peace with Israel is neither biased nor legally indefensible nor illogical.

It is merely the truth.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 11:28 pm
@oralloy,
I've been saying that for years. Guess your memory isn't as good as you claim.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2020 11:49 pm
@oralloy,
Ancient Israel does not go back to the very beginning. It's twenty oor thirty thousand years from the very beginning, and it was merely one of a number of conquerors of the same land and the same people, nor better or worse and not as long lasting as somepretty evanescent in truth. International law does not require peacep only on one party's terms, which is all that modern-day Israel is offering against people who would seem to have a stronger claim to the land as it exists today.
 

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