63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  0  
Sun 31 May, 2020 11:55 am
@izzythepush,
They never do. The ratio of Israeli "police" to Palestinians killed is so freaking disproportionate. Its like open season by IDF/police on Palestinians.

This thread upsets me too much to read the two resident nitwits' posts.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sun 31 May, 2020 08:29 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
When the bad guys are eliminated without doing much harm to the good guys, that's a good thing.

It's hardly open season. Israel only fires in self defense.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 31 May, 2020 08:31 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
they are not required to make peace when their adversary tramples on them and their requests.

Israel is not trampling on anyone. Israel only defends themselves when people attack them.


MontereyJack wrote:
Israel took their land. They want it back.

If they wanted land then they should have made peace.

The only way the Palestinians were going to get land from Israel was by making peace with Israel.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sun 31 May, 2020 08:32 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
When Netanyahu gets convicted and sent to jail as he should be, there may be a chance for reason to prevail.

Reason is already prevailing. That's why the bad guys are so unhappy.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Wed 10 Jun, 2020 01:42 am
On Tuesday, Israel's High Court of Justice ordered to nullify The "Law for the Regularisation of Settlement in Judea and Samaria" under the claim that it is "unconstitutional". It had been frozen since it was passed in 2017, pending a ruling by the court on several petitions against it.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 10 Jun, 2020 03:34 am
@Walter Hinteler,
What is the "Law for the Regularisation of Settlement in Judea and Samaria"?
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Wed 10 Jun, 2020 04:13 am
@oralloy,
Law for the Regulation of Settlement in Judea and Samaria, 5777-2017 (translated) via Library of Congress.

As said above: that law has been frozen since its approval in 2017 pending High Court ruling.
It was meant to allow the use of privately-owned Palestinian land to build Israeli settlements and to legalise outposts and structures erected on such soil - as far as I remember, you promoted it.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 10 Jun, 2020 04:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It does sound like a good law. I think Israel should deport Palestinians from Area B to the Gaza Strip.
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Wed 10 Jun, 2020 04:35 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
It does sound like a good law.
How it sounds doesn't matter: it is unconstitutional
[url] I think Israel should deport Palestinians from Area B to the Gaza Strip.[/url]Even after the judges ruled (an 8-1 ruling) that Palestinian residents have the status of "protected residents"?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 10 Jun, 2020 05:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm not familiar with that ruling, but I think Israel should slowly squeeze the Palestinians out of the West Bank and leave them with the Gaza Strip alone.

I mean, I'd support 1967 borders if the Palestinians had been willing to make peace. But it's pretty clear at this point that they won't make peace. So I don't see why they should get anything other than the Gaza Strip.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jun, 2020 05:55 am
@oralloy,
What's perfectly clear is Israel squats on their land and won't give it back. Israeli intransigence is why there's no peace.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 10 Jun, 2020 05:58 am
@MontereyJack,
Israel has repeatedly offered to give that land to the Palestinians in exchange for peace.

Your denial of this history reminds me of people who deny the Holocaust.

Palestinian intransigence is the only reason why there is no peace.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 06:52 am
@oralloy,
Since an annexation is an annexation, you must promote the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula by Russia as well, I suppose.

If Israel annexes the entire Jordan Valley, there would no longer be any room left for the state to which the Palestinians are entitled. A Middle East peace process would no longer exist.
And since an annexation will lead to a new wave of violence, the Israeli security argument could be considered to be specious.

Palestinians, whose families have been living in these areas for centuries, will they receive Israeli citizenship? Would they even want it? An apartheid regime with different rights for Israelis and non-Israelis would inevitably emerge.

I admit that thanks to Trump, there is a widespread view in Jerusalem that Israel has the opportunity of a century and must take advantage of it to take away large portions of the land belonging to the Palestinians.
But at least some Israeli know that it is risky to take Trump's word as a political carte blanche.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 08:15 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Since an annexation is an annexation, you must promote the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula by Russia as well, I suppose.

It's not really comparable. Israel has tried over and over again to trade land for peace with the Palestinians. The only reason why the Palestinians don't have that land right now is because they refuse to make peace.

However, I think Russia's annexation of Crimea is broadly similar to NATO stealing Kosovo from the Serbs.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
If Israel annexes the entire Jordan Valley, there would no longer be any room left for the state to which the Palestinians are entitled.

That's their problem. They are the ones who refused to make peace.

As far as I'm concerned the Palestinians can make their state from the Gaza Strip alone.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
A Middle East peace process would no longer exist.

The Palestinians and their European allies have already eradicated the peace process.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
And since an annexation will lead to a new wave of violence, the Israeli security argument could be considered to be specious.

If the Palestinians grow violent, ruthlessly smash them with heavy weapons until they stop being violent.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
Palestinians, whose families have been living in these areas for centuries, will they receive Israeli citizenship? Would they even want it? An apartheid regime with different rights for Israelis and non-Israelis would inevitably emerge.

I have no idea what Israel will choose to do.

Were it my decision I would seize these Palestinians' property and deport them naked straight to the Gaza Strip.

It may not show through in my posts, but I am very angry with the Palestinians and am completely out of patience with them.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
I admit that thanks to Trump, there is a widespread view in Jerusalem that Israel has the opportunity of a century and must take advantage of it to take away large portions of the land belonging to the Palestinians.
But at least some Israeli know that it is risky to take Trump's word as a political carte blanche.

I trust Mr. Trump to do right by Israel.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Fri 12 Jun, 2020 01:56 pm
Quote:
Israelis made the “Peace Process” a long Funeral for Palestinian Rights; Are They Finally Burying the Body?

Middle East Monitor ) – As the date for Israel’s planned annexation of Palestinian lands draws closer, Israeli circles have expressed growing concern about the consequences of the move.

The concerns do not stem from the fact annexation violates international law or that it overturns the obligations of an occupying power and violates the principles of the “peace process” and the “road map” that the Quartet established; they lie mainly in the fear of unsatisfied international and regional responses regarding the anticipated annexation step, as well as its security costs on the ground, its administrative and economic consequences, and whether it will be generally feasible for the occupation authority.

Israel’s tendency towards annexing areas of the West Bank has revealed a firm message that the Israeli side is not primarily concerned with the establishment of an independent Palestinian state, even if it is demilitarised, geographically unconnected and lacks economic fundamentals.

The occupation practically controls all of the West Bank and enjoys sweeping American support in this regard. The announcement of this annexation is the only remaining step, after consecutive Israeli governments paved its way with policies and procedures over more than half a century. They have seized Palestinian lands, establishment settlements on them and exercised dominance in the name of the ongoing military rule in the West Bank since 1967.

The annexation plan includes, for example, the Jordan Valley and the northern Dead Sea, a region of strategic and vital importance that occupies approximately 30 per cent of the area of the West Bank. The Israeli occupation authority has long worked to impose systematic restrictions on Palestinian citizens in the Valley, who are rarely allowed to manage their resources. The annexation of the Jordan Valley, in addition to its strategic consequences, simply means that any Palestinian state will only exist within a narrow and isolated area between Israel’s hands, and this “state” will not have external borders, as this Valley forms a barrier along the West Bank border with Jordan.

What has remained of the “peace process” promises will end completely with the annexation of large areas of the West Bank in this way, in addition to the areas that the occupation has previously occupied under the pretexts of settlement, construction of the Separation Wall, cutting of road, military necessities, etc..

One of the consequences of this step is that the Palestinian Authority will lose the justification for its existence, as it was originally established in 1994 to be a mere transitional stage on the road to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state in the five years that followed.

Successive Israeli governments have endeavoured to sustain the occupation, promote settlement and cut off life from any prospective Palestinian state. It can be said that the slogans of negotiation and peace were only a cover for the chronic evasiveness practiced with the Palestinian people, who were tied up, divided and tightly controlled. The Israeli occupation took advantage of the “stage of peace and negotiations” to impose further changes on the ground. This includes the fact that settlement has quadrupled during the past quarter of a century, while East Jerusalem has been isolated from the West Bank, in addition to destroying the demographic situation in the West Bank.

Reality has other harsh aspects, including the policy of financial blackmail practiced by the Israeli government with the Palestinian Authority, for example, by impeding the transfer of tax funds. A new crisis occurs every month because of this money, and the occupation authorities have cut some of it under various pretexts. The establishment of a “Palestinian State” under these conditions will not lead to any economic independence, since this “State” will be an entity that does not have the slightest conditions of independence and sovereignty.

Rather, it will be a state incapable of protecting its citizens, since all its weapons are needed to resort to internal repression and prevent revolution against the occupation, instead of repelling the continuing violations waged by the occupation forces on the ground.

Whether or not the Netanyahu-Gantz government takes the decision to annex vast territories of the West Bank, the message is clearly received. It stated that the Israeli side was not primarily concerned with any supposed peace process or any serious negotiations, and that it has consistently sought to impose the desired changes on the ground day by day tirelessly, and has not been curbed by criticism from the international community and its repeated verbal statements. These include resolutions, reports and warnings issued by the United Nations General Assembly, the Security Council, the International Court of Justice, the Human Rights Council, the European Union and other bodies. It is an unhappy ending that the longstanding lax international community participated in with a chronic military occupation and has not dared to take a punitive or deterrent step yet.

It should be recognised that the “Middle East peace process” that started in Madrid in 1991 and which has gone through successive stations, including the international Quartet’s promises to establish a “viable, independent, and geographically contiguous Palestinian State”, is like a continuous funeral procession of rights, justice and international law. The fact is that successive Israeli governments did not want Palestinian independence in the first place. Likewise, no Israeli government has yet dared to utter the term “Palestinian people” mainly because it conflicts with the Zionist belief and settlement ideology. The scene ended with a carefully woven reality of domination and oppression, in which the Israeli occupation authorities developed their own system of apartheid, Bantustans, segregation, control, censorship and persecution, while the international community is watching carelessly.

The views expressed in this article belong to the author and do not necessarily reflect the editorial policy of Middle East Monitor or Informed Comment.

Via Middle East Monitor



https://www.juancole.com/2020/06/israelis-process-palestinian.html
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sat 13 Jun, 2020 07:11 am
@revelette1,
Juan Cole wrote:
The fact is that successive Israeli governments did not want Palestinian independence in the first place.

Juan Cole sure is a neonazi thug. Shame on him for spouting such hateful lies.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Sun 14 Jun, 2020 08:20 pm
@oralloy,
Nonsense. Israeli "deals" which favor Israeli wants and shaft any Palestinian wants are why Palestinians and most of the world think Israelis are negotiating in bad faith.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 14 Jun, 2020 08:41 pm
@MontereyJack,
Your denial of Israel's peace offers reminds me of people who deny the Holocaust. Have you no shame at all?

At least your hate speech justifies Israel's annexation of the land. Israel has no more obligation to negotiate since the only thing they will get for their trouble is you denying their peace offers.

It is noteworthy that you have no response to either of these posts:

https://able2know.org/topic/355218-4526#post-7022134

https://able2know.org/topic/355218-4526#post-7022137
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Mon 15 Jun, 2020 05:09 am
@oralloy,
Have you no shame making such specious claims.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Mon 15 Jun, 2020 05:13 am
@oralloy,
I stand by my posts. Israeli intransigence in negotiating seriously Palestiniabn claims over Israeli aggression since 1947 has made peace impossible.
 

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