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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
PoshSpice
 
  1  
Mon 11 Dec, 2023 03:20 am
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0 Replies
 
Robert111333
 
  -3  
Wed 14 Aug, 2024 12:42 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Since I wish to reply to a post from 2009, it is not surprising contributor "Robert Gentel's" link no longer works. However, the maps offered by pro Palestinian Arabs tend to be similar, purporting an alleged "shrinking Palestine".

The following image is a copy of one such typical propaganda map, overwritten with appropriate rebuttal:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LkgW_KeiCjY/UiKaW5ZoLMI/AAAAAAAAFyo/yq3ZURC_kPo/s1600/lying++maps.jpg

Indeed the whole concept of a "shrinking Palestine" is misconceived and based in falsehood-propaganda. This is because there has never been any "Palestine" indigenous sovereign state in the land of Israel.

The name "Palestine" was imposed by the Romans for the land of Israel, and the name "Palestine" was resurrected by the League of Nations (later the United Nations) for the Mandate that was awarded to Great Britain. Both the Romans and the British were foreign imperial powers.

Israel is Re-established within the Jewish ancestral homeland. Internationally-recognized history shows that the last indigenous sovereign state in the land of Israel, prior to the RE-establishment of Israel in 1948, was the post-Biblical Jewish Hasmonean Kingdom. It included (what is now erroneously referred to as) the “West Bank” (correct description Judah and Samaria), and also Gaza, and the Golan Heights. Capital (of what is now referred to as East) Jerusalem / “Old City”; between 110 BCE / 754 BH and 63 BCE / 706 BH - Map:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Hasmonean_kingdom.jpg

tsarstepan
 
  2  
Wed 14 Aug, 2024 01:12 pm
@Robert111333,
Robert111333 wrote:

Since I wish to reply to a post from 2009, it is not surprising contributor "Robert Gentel's" link no longer works.

I'm not going to touch your argument or points made or otherwise. But you do have to be pretty stupid or relatively new to the internet to not expect a 15 year old link from a 15 year old (or older) source to still be around GIVEN THE EPHEMERAL NATURE OF THE INTERNET.
Robert111333
 
  -2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 10:03 am
@tsarstepan,
Just to remind the reader - What I wrote was that I was not surprised the link provided in a 2009 post no longer worked. Therefore I am not sure how contributor "tsarstepan" contrived to misunderstood that; but there it is.
That's also why I explained I was providing what I believe is the typical image (overwritten with rebuttal) that the original poster "Robert Gentel" had most likely linked.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 10:08 am
Quote:
THE HAGUE, 19 July 2024. The International Court of Justice has today given its Advisory Opinion in respect of the Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem.

It is recalled that, on 30 December 2022, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted resolution A/RES/77/247 in which, referring to Article 65 of the Statute of the Court, it requested the International Court of Justice to give an advisory opinion on the following questions:

“(a) What are the legal consequences arising from the ongoing violation by Israel of theright of the Palestinian people to self-determination, from its prolonged occupation, settlement and annexation of the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, includingmeasures aimed at altering the demographic composition, character and status ofthe Holy City of Jerusalem, and from its adoption of related discriminatory legislation and measures?
(b) How do the policies and practices of Israel referred to . . . above affect the legal status of the occupation, and what are the legal consequences that arise for all States and the United Nations from this status?”
In its Advisory Opinion, the Court responds to the questions posed by the General Assembly by concluding that:
 the State of Israel’s continued presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory is unlawful;

 the State of Israel is under an obligation to bring to an end its unlawful presence in the OccupiedPalestinian Territory as rapidly as possible;

 the State of Israel is under an obligation to cease immediately all new settlement activities, and to evacuate all settlers from the Occupied Palestinian Territory;
 the State of Israel has the obligation to make reparation for the damage caused to all the natural or legal persons concerned in the Occupied Palestinian Territory;


https://www.icj-cij.org/case/186
Robert111333
 
  -1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 11:07 am
@izzythepush,
The International Court of Justice advisory opinion on the Legal Consequences arising from the 'Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem', as all such judgments against Israel, appears to be based in resolutions passed by the United Nations. It makes no mention of the right to self-determination of the Jewish people, within as they are, their ancestral-homeland of Israel.

The U.N. and its structures have for many years had a built-in pro Palestinian Arab bias. The Palestinian Arabs start-off in U.N. votes by enjoying a block-vote in their favor of up to 56 Arab and additional Islamic-aligned countries (e.g. U.N. member states that are also members of the “Organization of Islamic Cooperation” and follow its policies when voting in the U.N.), and influence of Arab oil money with consequential trading power; compared to Israel being just one country.

This, plus the influence of Arab oil money with consequential trading-power, gives the Palestinian Arabs more influence both in the General Assembly and in the Security Council, compared to Israel being just one country. S.C. resolutions passed against Israel are typically during the tenure of U.S. Democratic Party Presidents who decide not to use their veto to protect Israel from unjust resolutions.

Accepted international constitutional law is that Laws must not be passed that are intrinsically-unjust that persecute a minority, as are the U.N. decisions against Israel, which falsely-validate the unverifiable-claims of the Palestinian Arabs.
An example of unjust-laws were the Nuremberg Laws of Nazi Germany which persecuted the Jews.

Israel is re-established within the Jewish ancestral-homeland: Map of the post-Biblical Jewish Hasmonean Kingdom including the “West Bank”, Gaza, and Golan Heights, with its capital of (what is now EAST) Jerusalem / “Old City”. Between 110 BCE / 754 BH and 63 BCE / 706 BH:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Hasmonean_kingdom.jpg

It is therefore illogical to accuse the Jewish people of:
“Invading”, “stealing”, “illegally-occupying”, “being a colony”, or having “illegal-settlements” on, the Jewish ancestral-homeland.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 11:13 am
I am not going to legitimise fascist colonialism by debating with illegal occupiers.

The occupation is illegal.

Boycott, Disinvest, Sanction.
Robert111333
 
  -2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 11:19 am
@izzythepush,
Contributor "izzythepush" wrote:
"The occupation is illegal."

How to immediately end the alleged Israeli Illegal-occupation of its ancestral land:

The falsehood purporting an Israeli illegal-occupation of any part the Jewish ancestral homeland, comes from the anti-Semitic policies of the United Nations which I explained in my previous post, and which therefore the U.N. should repeal forthwith.

An example of a different U.N. anti-Semitic policy subsequently repealed, was the U.N.'s falsehood that Zionism (Jewish nationalism) was form of racism:
https://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/17/world/un-repeals-its-75-resolution-equating-zionism-with-racism.html

Once the U.N. have repealed their illegal and illogical falsehood purporting an Israeli illegal-occupation, the U.N. should offer an apology to the Jewish people for the 56 years of the U.N.'s suffocating anti-Semitic trumped-up charge.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 11:27 am
Israel is committing genocide.

Netanyahu is a war criminal.
Robert111333
 
  -2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 12:02 pm
@izzythepush,
Contributor "izzythepush" wrote:
"Israel is committing genocide."

That's easy to allege, yet those who allege it, provide zero evidence.

When are falsehoods against Israel typically due to anti-Semitism, and how can you recognize Palestinian Arab Falsehood-Propaganda?
UNSUBSTANTIATED-allegations against Israel that insult the reader’s intelligence by being typically-provided with:
No detail, no objective-sources; zero evidence.

In April 2024 allegations started to emerge of "Mass Graves" being discovered at a Gaza hospital [Nasser hospital]. The reports were picked up by the Media and also cited prodigiously by those demonstrating against Israel. The reports came from "Gaza Civil Defense" (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Hamas).
Yet these graves were subsequently found to be those for which there was no room in the hospital morgue nor was it possible for the bodies to be taken away.
[Heading:] "Al-Shifa: WHO says Gaza hospital unable to bury dead bodies":
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67410093

Media news coverage typically report Gaza casualty figures without stating they are:
Unverified,
include Palestinian Arab combatants,
and source from Hamas.

It is just my personal opinion, but I would expect casualty figures to be far higher than the unverified ones reported, were Israel engaging in a genocide. For instance, the Media reports on the Gaza war give an impression that there has been no Palestinian Arabs firing upon the Israeli Army.

- - - - Start of extract: - - - -
[Heading:] "Authorities name 690 soldiers, 63 police officers killed in Gaza war", [...] Updated: 12 August 2024.
Five colonels among the dead, the most senior officers killed in combat in recent memory; 330 IDF troops killed in ground offensive. [...]

Source:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/authorities-name-44-soldiers-30-police-officers-killed-in-hamas-attack/
- - - End of extract - - - -

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 12:29 pm
@izzythepush,
The biggest driving factor of antisemitism is the behaviour of the State of Israel.

40000 Palestinians butchered by the IDF to date, and those are the ones we know about.

Thousands more are unaccounted for, under the rubble.

Just over 78 years ago Israeli terrorist murdered innocents in the King David Hotel bombing.

It was born from terrorism and remains a terrorist apartheid state to this day.

Charges of antisemitism are a lazy kneejerk reaction from fascists and belittles real antisemitic incidents, notably all the horseshit about covid vaccines.

Netanyahu relies on antisemitism to keep the diaspora quiet. He had no problems visiting antisemite Victor Orban, and Elon Musk's vile antisemitic utterings were very soon forgiven once he supported the ongoing genocide in Palestine.

Israel's war crimes are myriad and well documented, just today they've been accused again of using Palestinian children as human shields.

I'm not going to waste my time detailing them all only for a fascist to deny everything.
Robert111333
 
  -2  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 12:53 pm
@izzythepush,
Contributor "izzythepush" wrote:
"40000 Palestinians butchered by the IDF to date, and those are the ones we know about."

My previous post covered that:
"Media news coverage typically report Gaza casualty figures without stating they are:
Unverified,
include Palestinian Arab combatants,
and source from Hamas."

The Media mostly fail to mention that the "Gaza Health Ministry" from which they get those figures, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Hamas; that well-known terrorist organization currently fighting a war against Israel.

Contributor "izzythepush" also wrote:
"King David Hotel bombing":

- - - - Start of extract: - - - -

“[...] on Monday July 22nd, 1946 [when the incident took place ...] the King David Hotel, just west of the old city of Jerusalem [... was the] headquarters of both Palestine’s [British] civil administration and the British army in Palestine and Transjordan [...]”

Extract source:
http://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/palestinedavidshotel.htm

- - - - End of extract - - - -

Contributor "izzythepush" wrote:
"apartheid state":

There is no evidence of any "apartheid" in, or by, Israel. If there were, then contributors alleging that could provide the evidence, right!

Contributor "izzythepush" also wrote:
"Charges of antisemitism are a lazy kneejerk reaction from fascists and belittles real antisemitic incidents":

What I wrote in my previous post was simply how to recognize anti-Semitism:

"When are falsehoods against Israel typically due to anti-Semitism, and how can you recognize Palestinian Arab Falsehood-Propaganda?
UNSUBSTANTIATED-allegations against Israel that insult the reader’s intelligence by being typically-provided with:
No detail, no objective-sources; zero evidence."

Contributor "izzythepush" wrote:
"Israel's war crimes are myriad and well documented [...]":

Well then, let's have a few examples together with objective-evidence in support.

Oh, but then contributor "izzythepush" also went straight on after writing that, to say:
"I'm not going to waste my time detailing them all only for a fascist to deny everything."

Since there is likewise zero evidence from my posts here or elsewhere that I am allegedly a "fascist", I have to assume the use of that word is meant simply as an insult.




0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 15 Aug, 2024 01:00 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:


I'm not going to waste my time detailing them all, (Israel's war crimes) only for a fascist to deny everything.



Robert111333
 
  -3  
Sat 17 Aug, 2024 11:27 am
@izzythepush,
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/04/20/15/4B5C715A00000578-5638821-image-a-82_1524235807477.jpg

Image: “Palestinian protesters carry a transparent kite defaced with a swastika during clashes with Israeli forces across the [Gaza] border today [web page dated April 20, 2018] - [AFP/Getty Images].”:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5638821/Palestinian-women-standing-men-protests-likely-shot-at.html
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 17 Aug, 2024 11:53 am
@izzythepush,
Yesterday upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish I wish he'd go away.


0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sat 17 Aug, 2024 12:09 pm
On the subject of Nazis.

Quote:
Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. It initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis, proposing a Jewish state based on "nationalist and totalitarian principles, and linked to the German Reich by an alliance".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)

Secret South African documents reveal that Israel offered to sell nuclear warheads to the apartheid regime, providing the first official documentary evidence of the state's possession of nuclear weapons.

Quote:
The "top secret" minutes of meetings between senior officials from the two countries in 1975 show that South Africa's defence minister, PW Botha, asked for the warheads and Shimon Peres, then Israel's defence minister and now its president, responded by offering them "in three sizes". The two men also signed a broad-ranging agreement governing military ties between the two countries that included a clause declaring that "the very existence of this agreement" was to remain secret.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

Quote:
In the 1970s, while the international campaign to end apartheid in South Africa was ramping up, then-Prime Minister Rabin deepened Israel’s alliance with the country’s racist white government, which began in the 1960s and included working together to build nuclear weapons. In 1975, they established a "Joint Secretariate for Political and Psychological Warfare,” including "propaganda and psychological warfare,” part of a $100 million South African propaganda campaign to rehabilitate the country’s image. According to a report from NBC News:

In 1976, South African Prime Minister John Vorster, who was imprisoned by the British during World War II for pro-Nazi sympathies and activities, was welcomed warmly in Israel. At a state dinner, Rabin praised Vorster for creating a “prosperous atmosphere of cooperation” between their two countries.


https://imeu.org/article/quick-facts-yitzhak-rabin

Displaying Nazi symbols is pretty bad, but it's not as bad as giving actual Nazis a hero's welcome and offering them nuclear weapons.

And the Lehi insisted on making a deal with Nazi Germany long after the facts of Kristallnacht were established.

It's rank hypocrisy of the worst kind.
Robert111333
 
  -2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2024 03:06 pm
@izzythepush,
Regarding the Stern Group:

The contacts made with the Nazis were an attempt to save Jews from Nazi Germany by having them sent to "Palestine".

Quote:
In 1941, Jews in Palestine were not yet aware of the “Final Solution,” but they did know Jews were suffering under Nazi rule. [Abraham] Stern [leader of the Stern Group] decided to try to convince the Germans to allow Jews to go to Palestine. He sent Naftali Lubinchik to Beirut for a meeting with a German Foreign Ministry representative. Lubinchik told the Germans the “Jewish problem” could be solved by sending the Jews to Palestine, where they would create a Jewish military force to help conquer the land from the British.
[...]

Source:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/lo-x1e25-amei-x1e24-erut-israel


The Stern Group's policies were not acceptable to the main Jewish organizations fighting for Jewish self-determination, from the British.

Quote:
[...] In June 1940, Stern broke away from the Irgun Zeva’i Le’ummi (Etzel). The split was due to disagreement on three main issues:
(a) Stern’s demand that the military struggle against the British government be continued irrespective of the war against Nazi Germany;
(b) opposition to enlistment in the British army, which [Ze’ev] Jabotinsky [commander of the Irgun] supported; and
(c) willingness to collaborate, as a tactical measure, with anyone who supported the struggle against the British in Palestine. [...]

Source:
See previous link.


The Jewish groups defending the then “Palestinian” Jewish Community against Arab attack and British assistance to the Arabs, were fighting within the Jews ancestral homeland, while the British were an Imperial controlling power. Thus the Jewish defenders cannot be objectively-considered “terrorist”.


Apartheid South Africa:
Israel was not the only country to have relations with South Africa. Great Britain was another example.

Meanwhile, to bring us up-to-date, the Palestinian Arabs and their primarily anti-Semitic supporters use the Nazi swastika at protests in support of Hamas !:

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/10/08/20/76310803-12607931-image-a-108_1696794232754.jpg

Image title:
"The protester pointed the swastika - the symbol used by Nazis during the Holocaust - at the Israeli counter protesters".

From webpage headed:
'Fury as Palestinian protester waves a SWASTIKA at anti-Israel rally in New York City's Times Square', October 8, 2023:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12607931/Times-Square-Palestine-rally-Hamas-Israel.html



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