Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

You crack me up. Your posts never have any relation to realisitic thinking. You cobble together historical fairy tales--that you dredged up god knows where--with your bigotted opinions of others, often on a racist basis, and you have the temerity to call it realiistic thinking. "Arabs," as you choose to call them, have been living in Palestine for as long as Jews have. It was hardly the fault of the Bedu or your "Arabs" that the Romans ran off the Jews because their idiot-child rebellion failed. Yet you seem to suggest that they should now be moved aside so that Jews can return to a land from which they were absent for nearly two thousand years. You're delusional.

It was warriors who tattoed themselves with woad, bright boy, not the druids. Now certainly some priestesses liked to tatoo themselves, and then dance naked--but it is not something which is ritually associated with Samhain. Quite apart from that, the evidence is that when druid priestesses and more rarely, priests tatooed themselves, they used "charcoal" from smothered fires in order to get black tatoos--they didn't use woad for the blue color.

It is hilarious, though, you racist pig, to see you attempt yet again to insult me by your stupid comments about Kelts. It doesn't work both because you're too stupid and ill-informed, and because i have absolutely no respect for you, making me immune to you playground taunts.

Oralloy wrote:

You're trying to trick me into having a civilized conversation with you

No-one familiar with your posts would consider such a conversation to be possible.

You'll get nothing rational out of Oralloy.

I went over this again and again with him recently. He has arbitrarily decided that the Jews have an historic "right" to these lands,

while excluding any possibility that anyone else who has ever lived there has a claim.

He is, essentially, a Zionist supporter,

He is, essentially, a Zionist supporter, and nothing any of us says to him is going to change his warped, bigoted and prejudiced outlook.

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Oralloy wrote:

It is hardly repression for Israel to defend themselves when Palestinians run around trying to murder people. And there is certainly no reason to indemnify the Palestinians when you defend yourself from them.

You have it backwards. The Palestinians have been defending themselves from Zionist repression.

It is not defense for Palestinians to go around murdering people. And it is not repression to prevent Palestinians from murdering people.

You still have it backwards.

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

The Zionists must indemnify the Palestinians for their repression against them.

That's not going to happen.

That is why Israel will never see peace.

oralloy wrote:

Until the Palestinians make peace, there are no obligations whatsoever due them. And they will be crushed with whatever degree of force is required to ensure Israel's security.

Israel's insistence on maintaining and securing its discriminatory and oppressive ethnocentric state will ultimately lead to its violent destruction.

I'm just saying that if the tide turns against Israel, it's a nuclear state who very well could (read: would) press the button. I think if things get that far, the headline won't be about the end of Israel, but rather the nuclear wasteland of the entire area. I don't think a conflict with Israel of this scale would neatly be contained in its borders.

Sorry, the "old neighborhood" of my parents, and grandparents generation is already part of the "inner city." If you can take it from the current inhabitants, you are welcome to it.

You see, in urban America we are civilized, so that when we do not like the new neighbors, we move.

However, the Jewish Israelis cannot move into an Arab neighborhood, so they have to stay.

And, the history with the Japanese on the west coast and WWII, is a non-sequitor, since it was caused by paranoia we are told.

Please do not use apples and oranges to make a metaphor.

The famous Pike Place Market in Seattle was almost entirely Japanese owned before the community was packed up and sent to camp during WW2. Am I entitled to take your land in NYC, because my ancestors land was taken from me?

wiki wrote:

At the time of the bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941, many of the farmers selling in Pike Place Market were Japanese-Americans. The late Seattle historian Walt Crowley estimated that they might have been as many as four-fifths of the farmers selling produce from stalls. President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066 February 19, 1942, which eventually forced all Americans of Japanese ancestry in an "exclusion zone" that included the entirety of the West Coast states and southern Arizona into internment camps. On March 11, Executive Order 9095 created the Office of the Alien Property Custodian and gave it discretionary, plenary authority over all alien property interests. Many assets were frozen, creating immediate financial difficulty for the affected aliens, preventing most from moving out of the exclusion zones. Many Japanese Americans were effectively dispossessed.

A
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It is a crime for Palestinians to murder people.

And whatever level of violence is required to prevent them from murdering people, will be applied to them.

It is hilarious, though, you racist pig, to see you attempt yet again to insult me by your stupid comments about Kelts. It doesn't work both because you're too stupid and ill-informed, and because i have absolutely no respect for you, making me immune to you playground taunts.

I think that anyone who had their land seized in this manner should be given their own land back. Either that or they should be compensated fairly for it (and by fairly I mean to exclude token gestures that do little to actually compensate).

Now, how can a "stupid comment" be "racist"?

oralloy wrote:

It is a crime for Palestinians to murder people.

It's a crime to kill ANYONE.

oralloy wrote:

And whatever level of violence is required to prevent them from murdering people, will be applied to them.

In other words, murder the Palestinians.

oralloy wrote:

I think that anyone who had their land seized in this manner should be given their own land back. Either that or they should be compensated fairly for it (and by fairly I mean to exclude token gestures that do little to actually compensate).

How have the Palestinians been compensated for the land taken from them and continues to be taken?

And taken and taken and taken
R
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failures art wrote:

oralloy wrote:

It is a crime for Palestinians to murder people.

It's a crime to kill ANYONE.

That is incorrect. A soldier killing in battle is not committing a crime (I am presuming that the soldier is following the laws of war of course). A police officer who shoots and kills a bank robber is not committing a crime. And even a civilian who shoots and kills someone in self defense is not committing a crime. Also, although I am opposed to the death penalty because of the rampant execution of innocent people, the execution of a condemned prisoner is also not a crime.

failures art wrote:

oralloy wrote:

And whatever level of violence is required to prevent them from murdering people, will be applied to them.

In other words, murder the Palestinians.

No. Self defense is not murder. All Israel is doing is defending themselves against people who refuse to make peace.

If this is how you feel then can Palestinians kill a Israelis for the same reasons?

You said "to prevent." It's not self defense if you preemptively murder people.

We get precious little rationality from you, your conceits notwithstanding.

What is called the west bank has been the homeland of many people, including the Semites who lived there before the Jews showed up. You have simply decided, arbitrarily, to assert that their claim trumps all others.

And to repeat what i pointed out earlier in the thread, you have originally claimed that the Jews had a right to claim all of the territory shown on the 1919 Zionist map.

You began backpeddling when you realized you couldn't sustain that claim.

And you are, indeed, warped, bigoted and prejudiced.

You show it in just about every post in which you mention the Palestinians.

I've already presented you with plenty of facts, which is why you abandoned your original assertions, and moved to your fall back position about the West Bank.

Don't worry, though--i'm used to you making false claims about your arguments.

I make comments about the south of the Lebanon and the Golan Heights, and you tell me that it is not stealing to repossess one's land. When i point out that the south of Lebanon and the Golan Heights were never a part of Jewish lands prior to 1978 and 1967 respectively, then you fall back on your "I was only talking about the West Bank" sing-song. Your rhetoric is a mess, and you ought to embarrassed by how often you contradict yourself or make absurd statements.

In your post #4373912, replying to me . . .

You wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Therefore, all references to the south of the Lebanon, the Golan Heights and the other territories are pertinent, without regard to what land you think the Israeli government should be welcomed to shamelessly steal.

Repossession of stolen property is not theft.

Make up your mind about what you claim is stolen property.

The West Bank has been the ancient homeland of many people. Your decision to claim that the Jews and no others have a right to claim it is arbitrrary and quixotic. Too bad if you don't like having that pointed out to you.