Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

You get out of situations what you put in to them. The European Jews were running around murdering people before 1947 themselves--including members of the British army who were in legal occupation of their mandate.

Foofie wrote:

However, let us admit that only a smaller percentage of Europeans felt guilt over the Final Solution. It was really NJIMBY (No Jews In My Backyard), that I believe motivated more Europeans to want Israel to become a state, and be the enclave for those that managed to not be murdered by German efficiency.

That is very likely a motivating factor for some Europeans and Americans. However, although the United States like many nations would not take in European Jews, there was already a considerable Jewish population here. Large enough that in 1864, Lee issued a general order to the Army of Northen Virginia to explain to the Jewish members of the Confederate forces that they would be obliged to serve in the lines over the high holidays, and to assure them that Christian soldiers would be in the lines for their religious holidays. European nations were shipping their Jewish problem off to Palestine, the United States was not.

The Jews have no basis upon which to claim that they initiated monotheism. Early portions of the Pentateuch read as though the Jews at one time acknowledged the existence of more than one god, and monotheism appeared in Egypt long ago, in the fourteenth century before the common era , when Akhenaten (means "Servant of Aten") made the state religion monotheistic. Additionally, the Jews were much influenced by the new things they learned during the Babylonian captivity, including the monotheism of the Medes and Persians who eventually liberated them and sent them back to Palestine.

As for their relative success, thanks to the Aramaeans, confessional Judaism spread right across the middle east, over central Asia and reached China. It was replaced in the Hellenistic world to a large extent by Christianity, and late in Arabia and central Asia by Islam. But it was at one time the most successful proselytizing religion.

Your paranoias about antisemitism are of no interest to me, and have no bearing on this thread. I am equally unimpressed by your silly, tortured arguments about hypocrisy.

I am thoroughly disgusted by your racist comments about what you call "eminent domain," a thinly-veiled apologetic for stealing land from the Palestinians.

I suppose you would have preferred Palestine to have been left to the Turks? Putz.

Habiru (Ha biru) or Apiru or pr.w (Egyptian)[1] was the name given by various Sumerian, Egyptian, Akkadian, Hittite, Mitanni, and Ugaritic sources (dated, roughly, between 1800 BC and 1100 BC) to a group of people living as nomadic invaders in areas of the Fertile Crescent from Northeastern Mesopotamia and Iran to the borders of Egypt in Canaan.[2] Depending on the source and epoch, these Habiru are variously described as nomadic or semi-nomadic, rebels, outlaws, raiders, mercenaries, and bowmen, servants, slaves, migrant laborers, etc.

When the Amarna letters were translated, some scholars equated these Apiru with the Biblical Hebrews (Hebrew: עברים or עבריים, ʿIvrim, ʿIvriyyim). Besides the similarity of their spellings, the description of the Apiru attacking cities in Canaan seems to fit the Biblical account of the conquest of that land by Israelites under Joshua.

Pastoralists raise herds, driving them or moving with them, in patterns that normally avoid depleting pastures beyond their ability to recover.

If the settled communitites did not want their products they often raided the towns thus the Hebrews besides being herdsmen were often thieves and raiders thus the Egyptian description of "bandits". But the Hebrews were clever writing in their books that "God" gave the lands to them when they were actually thieves.

You get out of situations what you put in to them. The European Jews were running around murdering people before 1947 themselves--including members of the British army who were in legal occupation of their mandate.

Quote:

if the Palestinians wouldn't insist on trying to murder Israelis, then they wouldn't have to suffer the results of Israel defending themselves.

It's true that Israel is surrounded by arabs, many or most of whom would like to do them serious harm.

It's also true that since 1947 and at an increasing pace, Israel has murdered and dispossessed its neighbours, robbing them of their land and their water rights, their livelihood, their means of existence; robbing them of their future.

Now, it doesn't take an Einstein to spot the correlation there. Why, even Oralloy could do it.

The proselytizers, as would be evident to anyone with ordinary reading skills, were the Aramaeans, not the Jews. Your comment about Christians is a straw man, i made no comment on how the Christians proselytized. I call your attitude about land use racist because it is the classic Israeli argument for dispossessing Palestinians. Additionally, the claim that "industriousness" can be described as an ethnic trait is racist.

None of this surprises me coming from you.

You must admit they were clever bandits.

Egyptians mentioned the Habiru as bandits.

Since the Ashkanazi Jews are of Khazar origin they too would have that nomadic impulses.

"Einstein" might just be a poor metaphor for this topic, and your specific point. I believe Einstein believed in the existence of a Jewish state

If the Brits pull out of Ulster any time soon, there will be a blood bath, and it will likely be perpetrated on the Catholic minority by the Protestant majority, who rabidly fear the higher birth rate of those whom they see as their enemies.

Kosovo has not been a part of Serbia since the late 14th century, and even then their claim was dubious. Kosovo only became a part of Yugoslavia in 1919, and that is the sole basis for the Serb claim.

I wish any of the people of the former Yugoslavia well whenever they decide to kill the vicious Serb bastards who have been raping and murdering in their homes for decades now.

That you only acknowledge the West Bank as some kind of alleged homeland for the Jews is meaningless--this is all predicated on the map that i posted which was presented to the Allied powes in Paris early in 1919, before the British mandate existed and nearly 30 years before the Jews created the rogue state of Israel.

Therefore, all references to the south of the Lebanon, the Golan Heights and the other territories are pertinent, without regard to what land you think the Israeli government should be welcomed to shamelessly steal.

Your view is unrealistic, and i suspect it is largely conditioned by your right-wing thrill at seeing a militarily successful state for which you can cobble together an excuse for support. The Jews were run out by the Romans, and the beneficiaries were Hellenistic Greeks. They in their turn were replaced by Arabian Muslims. The Bedu have been there as long as the Jews, they converted to Islam, not having been run off by the Romans. They constitute the majority of the ancestors of the current Palestinians. Three thousand years ago, Gaul (France) was inhabited by Kelts, whom the Romans called Gauls. Should we insist that all of the French who have Frankish ancestors should clear out and turn the land over to those who ancestors were peasants in the days of the Frankish invasion? Your remarks about the claims of the Jews are ludicrous.

There is no crap to cut. You make **** up all the time,

After the defeat of the Persians by the Greco-Macedonians, during the Hellenistic period, the region was claimed by the "Persians" which is to say the Greco-Macedonian kingdom of the Seleucids. Judas Maccabeus lead a successful rebellion, successful to the extent that the Seleucids allowed the Jews to operate a satapy. But they were overrun by the Romans. In 70 CE, the Romans ran the Jews out after their failed rebellion. The Bedu remained. Then the Sassanids overran the region after the collapse of Roman imperial authority. They were overrun by the Arabian Muslims (that's your "1300 years ago"). They were overrun by the Seljuq Turks. The entire region was conquered by the Ayyubids, basically Ayyub and his nephew Yusuf, who is known to the Europeans as Saladind. They were Kurds. They were overrun as far as the Sinai by the Mongols. In the power vacuum, the Mamluks of Egypt briefly took over, but were driven out my the Osmali Turks (known from Osman's Arab name as the Ottoman Empire). The Mamluks, by the way, were military slaves, and the preferred source were Caucasian tribesmen. Palestine has been claimed by many people many times.

The Osmali Turks held sway until 1917, and the rest is a fairly well known history--except to right-wing fanatical supporters of Israel. So, when out of the depths of your ignorance of the history of the region, you tell me the Palestinians only showed up 1300 years ago--as though that would invalidate their claim even if it were true, which it is not--you are making **** up.

It's true that Israel is surrounded by arabs, many or most of whom would like to do them serious harm.

It's also true that since 1947 and at an increasing pace, Israel has murdered and dispossessed its neighbours, robbing them of their land and their water rights, their livelihood, their means of existence; robbing them of their future.

Now, it doesn't take an Einstein to spot the correlation there. Why, even Oralloy could do it.