Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

BTW, did you see the cool video from the news where that settler sent the Palestinian twerp flying when he tried to throw a stone at his car?

I recorded it. I can't record in HD yet, but I made an anamorphic DVD of it, which is about as good as you can get short of HD.

Reminds me of bowling, with the stone-throwing twerp playing the part of a bowling pin.

Stills from my anamorphic DVD (hope this works):

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5096/93141818.png

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/797/96484288.png

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8063/21950328.png

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/531/87874290.png

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7846/17434169.png

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1380/82010445.png

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/1662/96542374.png

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3900/65309241.png

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/731/55419834.png

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8753/73818372.png

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1373/56747223.png

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7813/80193426.png

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2252/70431952.png

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5496/12919749.png

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6530/26119479.png

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/9663/81473440.png

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5036/44296874.png

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/6321/71061607.png

I'm guessing it'll be awhile before he throws any more stones at people, eh? Broke his leg when he spun down onto the roof of the car and his momentum reversed from "up and over the top" to "flying forward over the hood". Mr. Green

1 Reply

@msolga,

msolga wrote:

From the (Oz) ABC NEWS online.
A recently posted (video) report from the ABC's Middle-East correspondent, Ben Knight:

Quote:
VIDEO: Israel begins construction on West Bank
Source: ABC News (Australia)
Published: Friday, October 22, 2010 9:33 AEDT
Expires: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:33 AEDT

Jewish settlers have returned to building at least 600 homes since the end of a construction freeze, according to watchdog 'Peace Now'.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/10/22/3045300.htm

I imagine the settlement construction will all be west of "the wall", so it's no big deal. Everyone knows that Israel is going to annex the land west of the wall, even if they refuse to admit that they know it.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Do a bit more research, oralloy, & perhaps check out the video I've posted, a bit more closely, as well.
I can assure you that it is considered a "big deal" to the Palestinians, say nothing of many around the world who would like nothing more than an a genuine good faith attempt (from both sides) to resolve this ongoing conflict. As daunting as such a goal is.
It is downright provocative of Israel to allow the expansion of settlements to occur in the west bank at this delicate time. Is Israel hoping to provoke yet more conflict with the Palestinians?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

It is hardly repression for Israel to defend themselves when Palestinians run around trying to murder people. And there is certainly no reason to indemnify the Palestinians when you defend yourself from them.

You have it backwards. The Palestinians have been defending themselves from Zionist repression. The Zionists must indemnify the Palestinians for their repression against them.

Quote:

As for their due, until the Palestinians decide to make peace, they are due zilch.

This you have backwards as well. If the Zionists ever want to see peace they must begin by owning to their obligations and giving the Palestinians their due.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Thanks for sharing, Oralloy.

Have you got any pictures of when the Israeli army bulldozer drove over the western peace activist and crushed her to death?

1 Reply

@msolga,

msolga wrote:

Do a bit more research, oralloy, & perhaps check out the video I've posted, a bit more closely, as well.
I can assure you that it is considered a "big deal" to the Palestinians,

Well, if they wanted different borders, the Palestinians should have tried negotiating instead of murdering people.

msolga wrote:

say nothing of many around the world who would like nothing more than an a genuine good faith attempt (from both sides) to resolve this ongoing conflict. As daunting as such a goal is.

We've seen a good faith attempt from the Israelis. We've also seen the Palestinians respond to that good faith attempt by murdering children until peace talks collapsed, along with the Israeli government that was engaging in those talks.

I doubt we'll ever see any good faith attempts from the Palestinians. And unless we do see the Palestinians become interested in peace, I doubt Israel is interested in wasting their energy on fake peace talks.

msolga wrote:

It is downright provocative of Israel to allow the expansion of settlements to occur in the west bank at this delicate time.

Hardly. It was downright provocative for the Palestinians to demand that the Roadmap For Peace be violated by having Israel give a major concession like a halt to settlement expansion before negotiations even begin, and without receiving any major concession in exchange.

What right do the Palestinians have to demand such a major concession for free, especially since it was a Palestinian murder spree that was responsible for collapsing the last round of peace talks?

And what would have happened had Israel given in to this demand, and it came to the point in the Roadmap For Peace where the Palestinians had to offer a major concession in exchange for a halt to settlement construction. Would the Palestinians have offered that concession for free, since they already had the settlement freeze, or would they have demanded that Israel give up some other concession?

This whole settlement-freeze demand was quite clearly a thinly-veiled attempt to derail the Roadmap For Peace and replace it with something that was unfair to Israel.

And had Israel given in on that first absurd demand from the Palestinians, surely even more such demands to depart from the Roadmap would have followed.

And despite all that, Obama engaged in a bout of anti-Semitism and bullied Israel to pay lip service to the absurd Palestinian demand, and halt settlement construction for 10 months.

Instead of starting to engage in talks then, the Palestinians refused to do anything for most of the 10 months. Then they started talks just before the deadline expired and demanded that the freeze be extended.

msolga wrote:

Is Israel hoping to provoke yet more conflict with the Palestinians?

All Israel is doing is refusing to let the Palestinians play mindgames and try to force an abandonment of the Roadmap For Peace.

0 Replies

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Oralloy wrote:
It is hardly repression for Israel to defend themselves when Palestinians run around trying to murder people. And there is certainly no reason to indemnify the Palestinians when you defend yourself from them.

You have it backwards. The Palestinians have been defending themselves from Zionist repression.

It is not defense for Palestinians to go around murdering people. And it is not repression to prevent Palestinians from murdering people.

InfraBlue wrote:

The Zionists must indemnify the Palestinians for their repression against them.

That's not going to happen.

InfraBlue wrote:

Oralloy wrote:
As for their due, until the Palestinians decide to make peace, they are due zilch.

This you have backwards as well. If the Zionists ever want to see peace they must begin by owning to their obligations and giving the Palestinians their due.

Until the Palestinians make peace, there are no obligations whatsoever due them. And they will be crushed with whatever degree of force is required to ensure Israel's security.

1 Reply

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Thanks for sharing, Oralloy.

Have you got any pictures of when the Israeli army bulldozer drove over the western peace activist and crushed her to death?

No. Is there video of it? I only got this because it was on the news recently.

You're trying to trick me into having a civilized conversation with you. Evil or Very Mad

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"Settlers"

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You'll get nothing rational out of Oralloy. I went over this again and again with him recently. He has arbitrarily decided that the Jews have an historic "right" to these lands, while excluding any possibility that anyone else who has ever lived there has a claim. He is, essentially, a Zionist supporter, and nothing any of us says to him is going to change his warped, bigoted and prejudiced outlook.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
It is hardly repression for Israel to defend themselves when Palestinians run around trying to murder people. And there is certainly no reason to indemnify the Palestinians when you defend yourself from them.

You have it backwards. The Palestinians have been defending themselves from Zionist repression.

It is not defense for Palestinians to go around murdering people. And it is not repression to prevent Palestinians from murdering people.

You still have it backwards.

Quote:

InfraBlue wrote:
The Zionists must indemnify the Palestinians for their repression against them.

That's not going to happen.

That is why Israel will never see peace.

Oralloy wrote:

Until the Palestinians make peace, there are no obligations whatsoever due them. And they will be crushed with whatever degree of force is required to ensure Israel's security.

Israel's insistence on maintaining and securing its discriminatory and oppressive ethnocentric state will ultimately lead to its violent destruction.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Israel's insistence on maintaining and securing its discriminatory and oppressive ethnocentric state will ultimately lead to its violent destruction.

It will lead to a lot more than just its destruction.

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@failures art,

Quote:

It will lead to a lot more than just its destruction.

Now let me see, what could a body read into this, if that body had a vivid imagination and a seething anger bent on revenge?

A body might imagine that there is paragraph after paragraph advocating another Holocaust or that the writer wants to see many of the people of the ME obliterated?

There really is no end to what one could speculate on, if one was inclined to raise fatuous arguments based on nothing.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

You're trying to trick me into having a civilized conversation with you

No-one familiar with your posts would consider such a conversation to be possible.

1 Reply

@JTT,

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this "body" bit.

I'm just saying that if the tide turns against Israel, it's a nuclear state who very well could (read: would) press the button. I think if things get that far, the headline won't be about the end of Israel, but rather the nuclear wasteland of the entire area. I don't think a conflict with Israel of this scale would neatly be contained in its borders.

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@failures art,

And how.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

You'll get nothing rational out of Oralloy. I went over this again and again with him recently. He has arbitrarily decided that the Jews have an historic "right" to these lands, while excluding any possibility that anyone else who has ever lived there has a claim. He is, essentially, a Zionist supporter, and nothing any of us says to him is going to change his warped, bigoted and prejudiced outlook.

Well, I think history has proven that Jews have been banished, chased, pushed, intimidated off of any land that they "historically" lived on. That not only goes for Europe, but also for neighborhoods in NYC. I think that for Jewish Israelis the mindset might include the thought that Israel is the "end of the road" after two-thousand years of pariahhood in Europe (based on Church sponsored anti-Semitism) and second class citizenship in Moslem countries. So, it might be less than realistic to think they will just move over peaceably to allow Arabs to dominate the last corner of the Earth they feel is theirs - rightly or wrongly. Please file this post under "realistic thinking."

It is almost Halloween. Druids should be mixing their blue paint around now.

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@Foofie,

http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/pacificNorthwest/PikePlaceMarketSeattleWA.jpg

The famous Pike Place Market in Seattle was almost entirely Japanese owned before the community was packed up and sent to camp during WW2. Am I entitled to take your land in NYC, because my ancestors land was taken from me?

wiki wrote:

At the time of the bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941, many of the farmers selling in Pike Place Market were Japanese-Americans. The late Seattle historian Walt Crowley estimated that they might have been as many as four-fifths of the farmers selling produce from stalls. President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066 February 19, 1942, which eventually forced all Americans of Japanese ancestry in an "exclusion zone" that included the entirety of the West Coast states and southern Arizona into internment camps. On March 11, Executive Order 9095 created the Office of the Alien Property Custodian and gave it discretionary, plenary authority over all alien property interests. Many assets were frozen, creating immediate financial difficulty for the affected aliens, preventing most from moving out of the exclusion zones. Many Japanese Americans were effectively dispossessed.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

The famous Pike Place Market in Seattle was almost entirely Japanese owned before the community was packed up and sent to camp during WW2. Am I entitled to take your land in NYC, because my ancestors land was taken from me?

wiki wrote:
At the time of the bombing of Pearl Harbor in December 1941, many of the farmers selling in Pike Place Market were Japanese-Americans. The late Seattle historian Walt Crowley estimated that they might have been as many as four-fifths of the farmers selling produce from stalls. President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066 February 19, 1942, which eventually forced all Americans of Japanese ancestry in an "exclusion zone" that included the entirety of the West Coast states and southern Arizona into internment camps. On March 11, Executive Order 9095 created the Office of the Alien Property Custodian and gave it discretionary, plenary authority over all alien property interests. Many assets were frozen, creating immediate financial difficulty for the affected aliens, preventing most from moving out of the exclusion zones. Many Japanese Americans were effectively dispossessed.

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Sorry, the "old neighborhood" of my parents, and grandparents generation is already part of the "inner city." If you can take it from the current inhabitants, you are welcome to it.

You see, in urban America we are civilized, so that when we do not like the new neighbors, we move. However, the Jewish Israelis cannot move into an Arab neighborhood, so they have to stay.

And, the history with the Japanese on the west coast and WWII, is a non-sequitor, since it was caused by paranoia we are told. Please do not use apples and oranges to make a metaphor.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

You crack me up. Your posts never have any relation to realisitic thinking. You cobble together historical fairy tales--that you dredged up god knows where--with your bigotted opinions of others, often on a racist basis, and you have the temerity to call it realiistic thinking. "Arabs," as you choose to call them, have been living in Palestine for as long as Jews have. It was hardly the fault of the Bedu or your "Arabs" that the Romans ran off the Jews because their idiot-child rebellion failed. Yet you seem to suggest that they should now be moved aside so that Jews can return to a land from which they were absent for nearly two thousand years. You're delusional.

It was warriors who tattoed themselves with woad, bright boy, not the druids. Now certainly some priestesses liked to tatoo themselves, and then dance naked--but it is not something which is ritually associated with Samhain. Quite apart from that, the evidence is that when druid priestesses and more rarely, priests tatooed themselves, they used "charcoal" from smothered fires in order to get black tatoos--they didn't use woad for the blue color.

It is hilarious, though, you racist pig, to see you attempt yet again to insult me by your stupid comments about Kelts. It doesn't work both because you're too stupid and ill-informed, and because i have absolutely no respect for you, making me immune to you playground taunts.

2 Replies

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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