THE WAR IN GAZA

...My father who was then in the Congress voted against the Lend Lease program to help arm Britain, saying that "one war in this century to save the British Empire is more than enough".

Yes, I know that there are Irish that do not "love" the British. Then why do so many Irish live and work in Britain? Other than the Soviet Jews that went to Germany for a better life, we do not see many American Jews that live and work in Germany? For that 800 - 900 years of subjugation, does it not seem odd to then live and work in that country?????

The Republic of Ireland and the UK enjoy generally warm and cordial relations, and , as you noted there is lots of travel & mutual economic activity between them.

In short, I think it is necessary to break the chain of oppression and reprisal in order to find peace. This, I believe, is a lesson that would benefit many Zionists.

You are only giving Zionists advice? The Palestineans would not benefit from this advice also?

Well I was brought up to dislike the British. My father who was then in the Congress voted against the Lend Lease program to help arm Britain, saying that "one war in this century to save the British Empire is more than enough". (We were members of various irish/Celtic groups and I played football for the local Gaelic league.) However, his early memories were forged in Ireland as were my mother's. Oddly though they didn't like 'England' as they called it, they weren't really hostile to individual Brits.

Now they've all become Europeans - hard to distinguish them from the French & Germans any more.

I think that's a perfectly understandable position. But FDR saw it differently. Perhaps he thought the danger of doing nothing to stop Hitlerism the worse option. But its certainly true a huge number of Americans wanted nothing to do with another European war. Nevertheless FDR got his war with Nazism, and its always led me to suspect that he engineered it.

Sheesh, FDR had to be drug kicking and screaming into the war, Steve, but thankfully we helped save Europe. Strange opinion you have there, are you looking for someone besides Hitler to blame the war on?

Well, no wonder your bias, George, but thanks to Churchill, no thanks deserving to your dear dad, Great Britain survived almost surely being overrun by Hitler, and averted total disaster. Dads are not always right, George, have you considered that possibility?

Sheesh, FDR had to be drug kicking and screaming into the war, Steve, but thankfully we helped save Europe. Strange opinion you have there, are you looking for someone besides Hitler to blame the war on?

okie wrote:

Well, no wonder your bias, George, but thanks to Churchill, no thanks deserving to your dear dad, Great Britain survived almost surely being overrun by Hitler, and averted total disaster. Dads are not always right, George, have you considered that possibility?

I don't think you have your facts entirely right here. Britain fairly well dissuaded Hitler from attempting a cross channel invasion on her own. After the fall of France Hitler thrashed around for a few weeks hoping that the British would make some overtures of peace or accomodation. When that wasn't forthcoming (and even Spain's Franco refused him access to Spanish territiry) he launched his air attacks on the British. Hitler was fairly soundly defeated in the ensuing Battle of Britain, and (Like Napoleon before him) , concluding that he could not safely launch the planned cross channel invasion of Britain, he instead, perhaps petulantly, decided on an invasion of the Soviet Union. That step sealed his fate (and Napoleon's too).

okie wrote:

Sheesh, FDR had to be drug kicking and screaming into the war, Steve, but thankfully we helped save Europe. Strange opinion you have there, are you looking for someone besides Hitler to blame the war on?

I think you are quite wrong on this point too. The historical record is quite clear that Roosevelt foresaw the coming war after 1937 and started preparations for our entry into it soon afterwards (that's when we started the huge military & naval base construction program that carried us through the war, and it was that that finally ended the depression). We now also know that FDR was actively conspiring with Churchil t0 support Britain to the extent that political conditions here would permit and, as well, to create political conditions favorable to our entry into the conflict. We took a very aggressive political & economic stance towards Japan (even cutting off her imports of our steel and petroleum when we were japan's principal; source of both) , and in the end they solved FDR's problem for him by attacking us.

The onoy real differences between Churchil's views and those of Roosevelt involved the issues of British colonies and the post war world order.

Bad news for the United States. AIPAC will redouble its efforts to lead our country by its nose, making us ever more a stooge for the Zionist ambitions of the extreme right wing of Israeli politics. So far it doesn't appear that Obama, who has not yet shown the balls to take on even Nancy Pelosi, will do much to resist.

You use the word, "conspiring" , FDR with Churchill, criminy George, they were our allies! I think "communicating with" would be a much better choice of words than "conspiring."

Seeing the eventual necessity or probability of going to war does not indicate an anxiousness for doing it. I am surprised at the amount of revisionist history on the internet. My parents were visiting Europe, in Scandanavia in 1938 - 39, and they were told to come back to the U.S. right away, ahead of schedule. It was as if everyone knew what was going to happen. Yet, FDR did nothing for another 3 years, in terms of direct involvement. Hitler was having a cakewalk in the park for a good long while. He conquered Denmark in a matter of hours. Any sane president watching this would have to want to see this stuff stopped, eventually.

As I am sure you well know, but won't admit, the USA has a great ally in Israel, and gets a tremendous bargain for what is loaned Israel.

You say I don't have my facts straight, but then you confirm my conclusion to a large extent. Hitler, I think, had every intent on taking Britain by ground invasion after he pounded them into submission in short order with the Luftwaffe, but surprising, the Brits dug in and although riddled, they were not beaten, and they kept turning out more aircraft at an unexpected rate. The main problem was having enough pilots, but in the end, they did enough damage to survive that Hitler decided to turn his attention elsewhere after he decided it would not be a cakewalk in the park. I believe alot of the credit goes to Winston Churchill, not much doubt, and if the U.S. had stepped further up to the plate sooner, it would not have been so severe of a test for them.

Sheesh, FDR had to be drug kicking and screaming into the war, Steve, but thankfully we helped save Europe.

You use the word, "conspiring" , FDR with Churchill, criminy George, they were our allies! I think "communicating with" would be a much better choice of words than "conspiring." Sure, FDR saw the troubles ahead, and war was raging while we sat here, and only a sane president would begin to take the proper preparations, so I do not see this as evidence he was chomping at the bit to go to war. I think there was some thought that we might eventually be attacked here, explaining some of the preparation. From what I have read, I do not believe he was anxious for it at all, but finally there was no alternative. If he had been anxious, he had ample chance to do it sooner. You point out public opinion, fine, but I think it was partly his opinion as well. If he was here, we could ask him, but otherwise we can only look at his actions, and they don't seem to support the idea that he was in a rush to go to war.