31
   

THE WAR IN GAZA

 
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 09:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

The wounded UN aid worker is dead by now.
The UN has suspended all its activity in the enclave.


The UN is not a favorite organization of many conservative Americans. Liberal Americans are more likely to still believe that the UN is a great organization that promotes peace.

I wonder how much the average Israeli admires the UN since there was that consensus that Zionism is racism?
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 09:54 am
@Foofie,
I am puzzled by your response to the UN workers getting killed delivering aid to the people in Gaza with prior permission from Israel. I am not conceding the UN collectively said Zionism is racist, but even if true, are you implying they deserve to get killed? If not, of what relevance is your response?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 09:56 am
@Foofie,
I don't question that the UN is the enmy of American conservatives.
But there are some rules, you know, and killing the personal of a clearly marked and announced convoy, especially at the exact point and time when it should pass ...

I wonder what American conservatives have to with the IDF.

I wonder when the USA (the are not only a member of the UN but a 'veto-member' in the Security Council) gave their consent that "Zionism is racism".
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 09:56 am
@revel,
Obviously.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:36 am
@revel,
revel wrote:

I am puzzled by your response to the UN workers getting killed delivering aid to the people in Gaza with prior permission from Israel. I am not conceding the UN collectively said Zionism is racist, but even if true, are you implying they deserve to get killed? If not, of what relevance is your response?


Your question above could be interpreted as an offensive question, since it reflects, I believe, that you can think that I may be implying anyone deserves to get killed. Where did you get the belief that I can imply such a thing? I never thought of myself as having such a lack of a moral compass.

However, that may be the downside of the internet. You knowing nothing about me, except what I post, so I guess one cannot be expected to always give other posters the benefit of the doubt, before one makes what could be interpreted as an offensive allusion.

My point is that the UN is not the Red Cross. If someone has a negative thought about the UN's presence, it might have some validity to some people, Israelis or conservative Americans, since the UN sticks their diplomatic nose into business that is not just UNICEF or world health. Sad the driver died.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:54 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Foofie wrote:

My point is that the UN is not the Red Cross. If someone has a negative thought about the UN's presence, it might have some validity to some people, Israelis or conservative Americans, since the UN sticks their diplomatic nose into business that is not just UNICEF or world health. Sad the driver died.


That's correct, that the UN relief agency UNRWA is not the Red Croos; hence the different name.
(UNWRA was established by the UN General Assembly resolution 302 (IV) of 8 December 1949. The General Assembly has repeatedly renewed UNRWA's mandate, most recently extending it until 30 June 2011.)

Again, please look at this news release by the Israelian Defense Ministry:
Quote:
(Communicated by COGAT - Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories, Ministry of Defense)

Today between 13:00 and 16:00, the IDF will implement for the second successive day a humanitarian recess in offensive activities. This step is in order to enable the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip to replenish stocks and to enable the international organizations to carry out their humanitarian missions.

Also this morning, approximately 300 dual nationals are expected to be evacuated via the Erez terminal at the request of the various embassies. The dual nationals will be shuttled to Allenby Bridge and make their way to Jordan accompanied by embassy staff.

Approximately 100 trucks to be transferred to Gaza via Kerem Shalom, and for the first time as a pilot via Erez. Finally, some 500,000 liters of heavy duty diesel for the Gaza power station are scheduled to be conveyed to Gaza via the Nahal Oz fuel depot.


Israel had signed to international conventions that protect non-combatants in times of conflict, btw.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:56 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Sad the driver died.


Such happens when you get shot. (The second UN worker died, too.)
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:03 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
You might not agree with me, but the Berlin Airlift was a more noble effort. I guess some people do not agree with a comparison of moral "worth." I say this because many Palestineans will always hate Israel. When the Berlin airlift took place, I would think most Germans liked the U.S.



Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:11 pm
@Foofie,
Now, what has the Berlin airlift (which was not an UN mission) to do with the killing of two UN relief workers by Israelian forces?

This has to do with noble, however: the free entrance for the relief organisations (not only by the UN) was officially announced by the Israelian authorities.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:19 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Now, what has the Berlin airlift (which was not an UN mission) to do with the killing of two UN relief workers by Israelian forces?

This has to do with noble, however: the free entrance for the relief organisations (not only by the UN) was officially announced by the Israelian authorities.


One humanitarian effort (the Berlin Airlift) was greeted with gratitude that lasts to this day, I believe. Any humanitarian effort that the Israelis give to the Palestineans is greeted by many Palestineans as entitlement, I believe, even though they voted in the terrorists that terrorize Israeli civilians.

One humanitarian effort was to mature people, the other one is to people I cannot even define.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:29 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
One humanitarian effort was to mature people, the other one is to people I cannot even define.


In that case it's of course okay to shoot the relief workers.
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 12:36 pm
@Foofie,
You responded to the post about the UN workers getting killed by demonizing the UN. I wondered what relevance of the UN's popularity with conservative Americans would have with the workers getting killed doing a job they had prior permission to do.

Quote:
My point is that the UN is not the Red Cross. If someone has a negative thought about the UN's presence, it might have some validity to some people, Israelis or conservative Americans, since the UN sticks their diplomatic nose into business that is not just UNICEF or world health. Sad the driver died.


Your response does not answer the relevance to the post about the UN workers getting killed. Never mind.
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 01:19 pm
The horrors in Gaza are the fault of Hamas, which continually attacked Israel from day one. Israel was always willing to live in peace with Gaza and its governments. Israel is not willing to wear a bullseye for the Hamas gunners.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 01:20 pm
@Advocate,


Advocate, you nailed it!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 01:35 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
The horrors in Gaza are the fault of Hamas, which continually attacked Israel from day one. Israel was always willing to live in peace with Gaza and its governments. Israel is not willing to wear a bullseye for the Hamas gunners.



Advocate...lemme ask you a question.

If some people came into your house and appropiated a significant portion of it for their own use, but declared that they will willing to live in peace with you there...

...would you consider it logical or proper for them to declare you to be at fault for struggling, by whatever means, to reclaim the house?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 01:36 pm
H2Oman...since you agreed with him, the question is address to you also.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 01:39 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Israel was always willing to live in peace with Gaza and its governments.


Is that why it reacted to the election of Hamas by demanding that the government be dissolved? Is that why Gaza was blockaded? Israel doesn't want peace -- she wants land and resources and she wants a Jewish controlled democratic state in an area where the demographics make it nearly impossible unless it is ethnically cleansed.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 02:44 pm
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AFP) " The US State Department on Thursday called on Israel to expand access of emergency aid into the Gaza Strip, decrying the "dire" humanitarian situation in the besieged Palestinian territory.
...
Washington signalled it wanted Israel to broaden the access for aid convoys and medical teams to operate inside Gaza, where the death toll from 13 days of bombardment and ground fighting has reached 760 Palestinians.

"We obviously believe the humanitarian situation to be a dire one. We are very concerned about what is going on on the ground," Wood said.

"What's important is to try to expand that access to humanitarian supplies to the population of Gaza," said the spokesman, adding Israeli officials said they "are as equally concerned about the humanitarian situation" as the United States.

Despite the call for Israel to broaden aid access, Wood reiterated the position of the US administration that the crisis was almost entirely of Hamas's doing.
...
Source
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 04:05 pm
@FreeDuck,
Free, where have you been. Israel pulled out of Gaza completely, leaving valuable commercial properties, which were promptly destroyed by Gaza. For some strange reason, Israel dislikes the some 8,000 rockets, plus shells, fired at it. Should Hamas stop this, it could have peace.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 04:49 pm
Plea to Hamas: No Ceasefire until Joe the Plumber Arrives in Gaza

Dear Hamas,

Allow us to restate that we deplore your actions, which have harmed both Palestinians and Israelis. However, it has come to our attention that Joe the Plumber is headed to the Middle East, to cover the war for WNWO-TV in Toledo. And while we are not technically asking you to kill Joe the Plumber (that's illegal!), we are encouraging you to reject a ceasefire until at least three rockets are fired in his direction. He's easy to spot. He literally has a skinhead, and he'll be surrounded by Israelis who will be asking themselves, "it's come to this? Israel's security is dependent on the editorial skills of Joe the Plumber?"

--236.com
 

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