GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN

Does Karzai=Diem?

I think that we should try harder to win in Afghanistan, and I'm disgusted by your attitude about dealing with people who helped a group that attacked us and murdered our citizens.

Does Karzai=Diem?

The military success of the Ten Thousand had less to do with the famous hoplite tactics than with the ability to adapt on the fly to widely different fighting conditions, especially marching while under pursuit (Xenophon, for instance, urged that they deploy in towns and villages when threatened in the rear by an attacking force, rather than engage in a fighting retreat). The Greeks jury-rigged a cavalry force and slingers to replace the capabilities lost with the destruction of Cyrus’s army. They reduced their baggage and animals, and recently-acquired slaves, to the bare minimum to ease logistical demands.

Diplomacy proved to be essential to the success of the expedition. [.....]

But as they moved into the territories outside Persian control, they must find ways to address the “security dilemma” to avoid unnecessary battles without undue risk of being lured into a trap. They struck agreements with cities and tribes to fight their local enemies in return for safe passage, guides, and supplies. They told their prospective allies that they would never again have at their disposal such a force with which to obtain their objectives.

Initially, the premise of an invasion of Afghanistan was sound.

But as American warplanes entered the second week of the bombing campaign, Washington rejected the Taliban offer out of hand. "When I said no negotiations I meant no negotiations," Mr Bush said. "We know he's guilty. Turn him over. There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bush-rejects-taliban-offer-to-surrender-bin-laden-631436.html

Lord Ashdown writes in The Times: “There is now a real chance that we will lose this struggle in the bars and front-rooms of Britain, before we lose it in the deserts and mountains of Afghanistan.” Lord Powell said that the public wouldn’t accept a strategy that did not include a cut-off point within three years.

The soul-searching was reflected by the Right Rev Stephen Venner, the Bishop to the Armed Forces. He said: “I would hope that all politicians and church leaders would be asking questions. We are asking our people . . . to be in positions of huge danger. We must always ask the question about whether it is right we should be there.”

Really? Tell me a specific example of the US targetting civilians for intentional extermination.

By the time Tiger Force soldiers stopped firing their weapons, six people were dead, including two children.

They weren't carrying weapons, or dressed in enemy uniforms, but it didn't matter: They were living in a free-fire zone.

For Vietnamese civilians, it was a dangerous decision.

It meant they were in an area where the U.S. military could strike without warning.

No approval was necessary for soldiers to open fire or order air strikes on a specific region - or village - as long as two conditions were met: Troops had to be attacked, and their targets had to be military.

But Tiger Force didn't always follow the rules.

The slaughter of six people in the village near Chu Lai in 1967 was another reminder of the platoon's abuse of the new military policy.

Time and again, Tiger Force members turned free-fire zones into crime zones, killing unarmed men, women, and children .

Of the 30 war-crime cases investigated by the Army, 19 were reported in such zones, according to a Blade review of thousands of military records.

At least 12 times, its members entered villages and openly fired on civilians.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/SRTIGERFORCE/110210076

Before he died at age 59, Mr. Bruner recorded a tape about his tours in Vietnam for a Pearl Harbor commemoration in 1988, recalling the shooting of the farmer.

In the tape, he condemned the killing.

"To me, this is what you call murder - they flat out murdered the guy."

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/SRTIGERFORCE/110200130

U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba
Book: U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba

In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

The secrets that man must know. Wouldn't you love to find a tell-all book from Osama in your Xmas stocking?.

.... McNamara is a war criminal and should go to trial.

We killed over three million in Nam. I saw a tape of Marines shelling a civilian "enemy" village, with our soldiers laughing it up. There was no return fire from the village. This was repeated thousands of times. McNamara is a war criminal and should go to trial.

...........................
And then for you to claim the scene was repeated thousands of times, that is nonsensical on its face, and lacking any evidence, you should apologize for an uninformed and basically just dumb post.

Witness to Vietnam atrocities never knew about investigation
By MICHAEL D. SALLAH and MITCH WEISS
BLADE STAFF WRITERS

...

The goal of the military was to stop the 5,000 inhabitants from growing rice - food that could feed the enemy. But with deep ties to the land, many villagers refused to leave. That’s when Tiger Force members joined other battalion soldiers in what became a grisly routine: Shooting villagers who stayed in their hamlets.

Mr. Stout said commanders were counting the executed civilians as enemy soldiers to help boost "body count."

In Vietnam, the measure of success was the number of enemy soldiers killed - not the taking of land, say military historians.

Mr. Stout said in July he spotted a sign posted in a command center in the valley with a tally of the dead enemy soldiers: 600. But the numbers of weapons seized totaled only 11. "Most of the dead people were civilians."

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/SRTIGERFORCE/111300139

Defence chief plans for 2011 Afghan pullout

Last Updated: Thursday, November 5, 2009 | 11:26 PM ET Comments203Recommend85By James Cudmore, CBC News

The head of the Canadian Armed Forces has issued orders to prepare to withdraw from Afghanistan in 2011 in the absence of a clear direction from government on the mission's future shape.

CBC News has learned that Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Walt Natynczyk has ordered his commanders to start preparing military plans to pull out of Afghanistan and return thousands of soldiers and billions of dollars' worth of equipment to Canada.

Maj. Cindy Tessier, a spokeswoman for Natynczyk, suggested the plans were a measure of prudence.

"The parliamentary motion was clear, and prudent military planning has begun," she told CBC News. "That commences with orders."

In March 2008, Parliament voted to extend the mission until July 2011. The parliamentary motion said all troops must be out of Afghanistan by the end of that year.

There are 2,800 Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan, based primarily in Kandahar province.

Natynczyk's orders are designed to implement Parliament's decision, pending an announcement of any new plans for the military. They follow months of intense speculation about the government's plans for the mission in Afghanistan.

The government has insisted Canada's military mission will end in 2011. But its ministers and staff " including Defence Minister Peter MacKay " have suggested Canadian soldiers could remain in Afghanistan beyond that deadline, though perhaps not in combat.

That speculation prompted a flurry of criticism from military experts and former commanders.

Retired general Rick Hillier, who preceded Natynczyk as chief of the defence staff, said it was folly to think Canadian soldiers could remain in Afghanistan and not be involved in combat.

On Friday, MacKay, told reporters the government has been consistent on the pullout of troops.

"We have been crystal-clear at a military level and a political level " the prime minister, myself, the minister of foreign affairs, Gen. Walter Natynczyk " [the] combat mission will end in 2011.

"Certainly one of the best things that our military do is planning and contingency planning so they're making the necessary arrangements to prepare for that inevitability in 2011."

As recently as this week, MacKay said the government had not yet made up its mind about troops after 2011. The defence minister said the government was waiting to hear if U.S. President Barack Obama would commit more troops to the fight in southern Afghanistan before deciding what Canada's own mission would look like.

....On Friday, MacKay, told reporters the government has been consistent on the pullout of troops.

"We have been crystal-clear at a military level and a political level " the prime minister, myself, the minister of foreign affairs, Gen. Walter Natynczyk " [the] combat mission will end in 2011.

"Certainly one of the best things that our military do is planning and contingency planning so they're making the necessary arrangements to prepare for that inevitability in 2011."

As recently as this week, MacKay said the government had not yet made up its mind about troops after 2011. The defence minister said the government was waiting to hear if U.S. President Barack Obama would commit more troops to the fight in southern Afghanistan before deciding what Canada's own mission would look like.