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Wed 10 Dec, 2008 09:25 am
'Jesus was born in June', astronomers claim
09 Dec 2008
Astronomers have calculated that Christmas should be in June, by charting the appearance of the 'Christmas star' which the Bible says led the three Wise Men to Jesus.
They found that a bright star which appeared over Bethlehem 2,000 years ago pinpointed the date of Christ's birth as June 17 rather than December 25.
The researchers claim the 'Christmas star' was most likely a magnificent conjunction of the planets Venus and Jupiter, which were so close together they would have shone unusually brightly as a single "beacon of light" which appeared suddenly.
If the team is correct, it would mean Jesus was a Gemini, not a Capricorn as previously believed.
Australian astronomer Dave Reneke used complex computer software to chart the exact positions of all celestial bodies and map the night sky as it would have appeared over the Holy Land more than 2,000 years ago.
It revealed a spectacular astronomical event around the time of Jesus's birth.
Mr Reneke says the wise men probably interpreted it as the sign they had been waiting for, and they followed the 'star' to Christ's birthplace in a stable in Bethlehem, as described in the Bible.
Generally accepted research has placed the nativity to somewhere between 3BC and 1AD.
Using the St Matthew's Gospel as a reference point, Mr Reneke pinpointed the planetary conjunction, which appeared in the constellation of Leo, to the exact date of June 17 in the year 2BC.
The astronomy lecturer, who is also news editor of Sky and Space magazine, said: "We have software that can recreate exactly the night sky as it was at any point in the last several thousand years.
"We used it to go back to the time when Jesus was born, according to the Bible.
"Venus and Jupiter became very close in the the year 2BC and they would have appeared to be one bright beacon of light.
"We are not saying this was definitely the Christmas star - but it is the strongest explanation for it of any I have seen so far.
"There's no other explanation that so closely matches the facts we have from the time.
"This could well have been what the three wise men interpreted as a sign. They could easily have mistaken it for one bright star.
"Astronomy is such a precise science, we can plot exactly where the planets were, and it certainly seems this is the fabled Christmas star."
Mr Reneke, formerly the chief lecturer at the Port Macquarie Observatory in New South Wales, added: "December is an arbitrary date we have accepted but it doesn't really mean that is when it happened.
"This is not an attempt to decry religion. It's really backing it up as it shows there really was a bright object appearing in the East at the right time.
"Often when we mix science with religion in this kind of forum, it can upset people. In this case, I think this could serve to reinforce people's faith."
Previous theories have speculated the star was a supernova - an exploding star - or even a comet. But Mr Reneke says by narrowing the date down, the technology has provided the most compelling explanation yet.
I can't believe this ****.
Now I must burn all the gifts I just finished wrapping. This December Christmas hoosegow is nothing but a sham!
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
John the Baptist is according to the legends six months older han Jesus. So he was born June 24th, which is celebrated not only by Catholics but also by us Scandinavians - Midsummer. Those two things just happen to be together.
Now we are supposed to put up a Maypoole with branches with green leaves and summerflowers and dance outside at Christmas - ok one good thing - no mosquitos. But where do we find summerflowers and green leaves in December??
Then we can put up a Christmas tree indoors in June and dance around it. We dance around both the Maypoole and the Christmas tree.
Of course when I think about all the cold Midsummers I have experienced it might not be such a bad idea.
There is no record of any "jesus" other than the bible. If he performed all those miracles, there would have been more written records during the time it actually happened. It didn't.
I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say this to you folks before it sinks it. Our Winter celebration which ends on Dec. 25 has nothing whatever to do with the birth of Jesus. Saab should know this better than anyone -- Jul is Yule and Medsomer is Midsummer Night. And so it has been since time out of mind, long before the current era of Christianity, amen.
And whatever it is that those astronomers think they've discovered is horse puckies as well. We have no idea what the exact year of Jesus' birth was or would have been. It was deduced a long, long time ago that if we count our years from the birth of Jesus, this probably isn't 2008. It could be 2010, it could be 2000. We just don't know. Even the Catholic church doesn't insist that the year is right. They think that maybe 3 a.d. is the correct year. Maybe.
That "star" that the magi supposedly saw was most likely a supernova of which we have no record.
@Merry Andrew,
And to add to your wise words. Yule or solstice was not even celebrated on a certain date from the beginning , as people did not have neither calenders nor clocks. It was celebrated in the winter, when the harvest was taken care of and all other things which need to be done. The celebrations also depended on how good the harvest had been. No food - no celebrations, no parties, no fun.
As I pointed out John the Baptist and Midsummer just happen to be together just like Chistmas and Winter celebrations.
In early times the Scandinavians only had two seasons - winter and summer.
@saab,
Does it occur to you, Saab, that maybe -- just maybe -- the church fathers decided to make June 23 the Feast of Saint John the Baptist because they couldn't stop people from celebrating Medsomer anyway? Just like they decided that December was the birthday of Jesus because there were already Jul and Saturnalia celebrations in place across Europe?
@Merry Andrew,
Quote:
That "star" that the magi supposedly saw was most likely a supernova of which we have no record.
...or Jupiter and Venus getting so close as to appear to be a single extremely bright star.
That's what I think is cool. (That they have maybe been able to pinpoint an actual event having to do with one of society's major stories.) I'm agnostic and have always been, and celebrate Christmas as a midwinter festival, that's all. (Christmas trees, lights, greenery, gifts, no religion.)
@sozobe,
We "celebrated" Christmas when our kids were young with the decorated christmas tree with lights. We eventually changed from a cut tree to artificial tree, then stopped it all together when the kids were in their teens. Some of our friends still put up their christmas trees with all the "trimmings." Since we don't have any grandchildren, we don't bother except for poinsettia plants and a wreath on the front door.
@Merry Andrew,
Of course it occurs to me. It could be that it was easier to convert people when they were allowed to continue their celebrations.
For me Christmas is a Christian holiday with all the fun and decorations which for me belongs to Christmas. Traditions going back a long way from generation to generation adding or removing things. Nobody is fasting anymore before Christmas. Many of our old traditions also come from superstitions. Especially the new year made people try to explain things that happened and what that would bring in the comining year.
If the first visitor on New Year´s Day was a man it would be a good year, was it a woman it would be a bad year. An old woman was really a bad omen, so I guess they stayed home by the warm owen not to scare the pans off the folks.
@saab,
Many non-christian countries celebrate christmas.
It totally cracks me up that they give this huge explaination of the marvels of modern astronomy and then putting in that now we know Jesus was a Gemini!
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, they do but not as Christians and not with the traditions going back 1000 years as in Scandinavia and even longer in southern Europe. They do often not even know why it is celebrated.
They don´t have the feeling of a long tradition as even secular people in a prodominant Christian country have. It is something else when your decorations have been put up for decades, you read the stories which even your grandparents read, eat food which goes back to Catholic days - over 500 years - in your country. If you go to church the hymns have been song for centuries.
@boomerang,
Quote:It totally cracks me up that they give this huge explaination of the marvels of modern astronomy and then putting in that now we know Jesus was a Gemini!
Totally agree with you, Boomer. LOL.
Regardless of when Christmas should be celebrated, does it not make sense that a religion based on being the follower of this one individual should celebrate what is claimed to be his birthdate? In other words, since Moses was just a wanderer in the desert, and a climber of that mountain, there is no need to have a holiday celebrating any supposed birthdate. Christianity is different. The birthdate is essential as part of the whole religion's meaning. What am I not understanding?
@Foofie,
What you're not understanding is that Christmas has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus. Sure, there are quite a few people who think it does, but nobody has the slightest idea when Jesus was biorn. That includes the astronomers who think they've just come up with something. The fol-de-rol that constitutes the celebration of the mid-winter holiday is a hell of a lot older than the time of Jesus. And, as for the other part of your question, no, nobody really cares when Jesus was born. To move the celebration to some other part of the year -- say, June -- would be ludicrous. The celebrations around the 25th of December would still continue as they have since time immemorial.
I'll say this for religiously oriented people. If they think that what they are celebrating (or observing) is the birthday of Jesus, that's fine. Then, for them, it's the right day. It's just tradition, that's all.
It is amazing, that you Americans are so concerned about Yule, Christmas or whatever you like to call is not really a Christian holiday/holy day, but that you have to point out that it is a pre Christian celebration.
I have lived in several European countries and lived here my whole life with exeption a couple of years and I have never run into a European being concerned about it. Of course we see it as a mixture of Christian traditions and secular traditions, but after 1000 years we just accept it as traditions based mostly on Christianity.
Pre Christian times in Scandinavia during the winter a fire was lit next to a holy tree. Then that stopped andpeople made an artificial tree. A poole with side braches and candles and in Sweden we still have the old three armed candleholder and special candleholders of wood for Christmas.
In reality it is not the tradition with taking in a tree which goes back to pre Christian days, but the tradition of a special candle holder which looks a bit like this.
http://www.finasaker.se/5armad.jpg
Gifts used to be for New Year and in Sweden up to the reformation children got a present - if any at all - 6th of December - This was changed with the reformation when Christmas got to be more important than the day of a saint and in the 17th century the tradition of gifts for Christmas started.
@saab,
saab wrote:
It is amazing, that you Americans are so concerned about Yule, Christmas or whatever you like to call is not really a Christian holiday/holy day, but that you have to point out that it is a pre Christian celebration.
I have lived in several European countries and lived here my whole life with exeption a couple of years and I have never run into a European being concerned about it. Of course we see it as a mixture of Christian traditions and secular traditions, but after 1000 years we just accept it as traditions based mostly on Christianity.
Is your observation that Europeans do not question Christmas or Yule reflective of a greater willingness of Europeans to accept without question (a priori) much of the popular culture? You might have just answered why Europe was able to fight wars for the last thousand years between countries, and religions, and accept genocide when it was practiced. I think I understand more now about Europe. Now I am happier to be American.
@Foofie,
I was under no circumstances trying to deney wars about religions or genocides which have been going on in Europe - even as late as in the 1990s- that has been and is still discussed.
What I was trying to say is that we do not think about or talk about the pre Christian traditions around Christmastime.
But you are welcome to misunderstand what I said and you are also welcome to judge all Europeans because of something I as one representative said and you misinterperted.
Glad to know that you are now happier to be an American - good for you to feel good and superior to us Europeans.
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