'Jesus was born in June', astronomers claim

@saab,

Not superior, just happier to be part of a questioning culture. Less chance to follow demigods.

@saab,

Traditions going back 1000 years does not make it any more christian than the birth of Martin Luther King Jr. or halloween. People "celebrate" holidays as a way of socialization and nothing more. Anyone can make-believe it has some religious significance, but there's no way to prove there are any gods. That's all created in the individual mind.

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@Foofie,

Your judgement over us Europeans is just as wrong as when some Europeans tells me that Americans have no traditions and no cultur. It makes me furious every time. Over the years I have learned to come up with some answers.
I am not mentioning any nationalities - but it is not Scandinavians.

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@saab,

Feeling "superior" based on country of birth or migration is stupid; what does it prove to that individual or anybody else within or without said country?

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@saab,

saab wrote:

Your judgement over us Europeans is just as wrong as when some Europeans tells me that Americans have no traditions and no cultur. It makes me furious every time. Over the years I have learned to come up with some answers.
I am not mentioning any nationalities - but it is not Scandinavians.

Hey, get over it; I am not enamored with Europeans, except for a few countries - Denmark, Spain, Britain. There is a common denominator. Some students of history might realize what that is.

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@Foofie,

You made me curious - what is the common denominator for Denmark, Spain and Britain. Denmark and Britian I can understand but not Spain in that connection.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

You made me curious - what is the common denominator for Denmark, Spain and Britain. Denmark and Britian I can understand but not Spain in that connection.

During WWII, Denmark saved all of its Jewish population. Franco was running an underground railroad to get Jews to safety in neutral countries. Britain had a Jewish population that they thought of as Jewish Brits; very much British citizens. I cannot speak for other countries; some played ball with the Nazi obsession regarding Jews.

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@Foofie,

If what you say is so, Foofie, I must admit you've taught me something I was blithely unaware of -- that Francisco Franco, whose "neutral" government in Spain was unabashedly-pro Hitler and pro-Nazi, actually helped Jews escape from Germany. Boggles the mind, that does.

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@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

.. that Francisco Franco, whose "neutral" government in Spain was unabashedly-pro Hitler and pro-Nazi, actually helped Jews escape from Germany. Boggles the mind, that does.

Well, it can be mind-boggling to you, MA, but not to me.

Since quite a while now, I have spotted Foofie's direst malevolence.

His ways of twisting history as to adapt his propaganda agenda are simply disgusting.

His half-baked statements are only pretenses to true knowledge, but they are deleterious to humankind.

It upsets me to highest point that people can believe his assertions.

He is truly human garbage. He is a fraudulent, lying, predatory charlatan.

OmsgDavid and cjhsa are inoffensive, inocent toddlers compared to him.

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@Merry Andrew,

Foofie said the Danes saved all the Jews - but forgot to tell what country they went to. There was only one safe country around at that time and that happened to be Sweden, which also took Norwegains, Finnish children, boat people from the Baltic countries and March 8th 1945 the white busses started to bring over 15 000 people out of concentrations camps in Germany. Half of them Scandinavians and the other half French and other non Germans.

Strangely it is true with Spain. One has heard and read about Jews fleeing the border to France to get to Spain and then try to get to England and USA.

During the war, Spain became an unlikely haven for several thousand Jews. They were mainly from Western Europe, fleeing deportation to concentration camps from occupied France, but also Sephardic Jews from Eastern Europe, especially in Hungary. Trudy Alexy refers to the "absurdity" and "paradox of refugees fleeing the Nazis' Final Solution to seek asylum in a country where no Jews had been allowed to live openly as Jews for over four centuries."

Throughout World War II, Spanish diplomats of the Franco government, as well as diplomats from Switzerland, Sweden, Portugal and the Vatican, extended their protection to Eastern European Jews, especially in Hungary.

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Sweet! Maybe now I won't keep getting shown up on my birthday by that Jesus kid.

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@saab,

I'm aware of that history, saab. My one complaint against Sweden in this regard is that, at the end of the war, they turned over to the Soviet Union hundreds of "boat people from the Baltic countries." These were mostly men who had desserted from Hitler's army into which they had been conscripted. They had sought refuge in neutral Sweden but the Swedish government justified this deportation to a hostile USSR on the basis that, as they had worn German uniforms, they nust be Nazis who deserved deportation. No hearings, no questions asked. Sweden lost a great deal of respect in the eyes of expatriate Balts (including my people, the Latvian-Americans) over this unfortunate incident.

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@Francis,

You've apparently researched this more deeply that I, Francis. But is the statement at all true that Franco's Spain was sympathetic and even helpful to Jews?

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@Francis,

Francis wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:
.. that Francisco Franco, whose "neutral" government in Spain was unabashedly-pro Hitler and pro-Nazi, actually helped Jews escape from Germany. Boggles the mind, that does.

Well, it can be mind-boggling to you, MA, but not to me.

Since quite a while now, I have spotted Foofie's direst malevolence.

His ways of twisting history as to adapt his propaganda agenda are simply disgusting.

His half-baked statements are only pretenses to true knowledge, but they are deleterious to humankind.

It upsets me to highest point that people can believe his assertions.

He is truly human garbage. He is a fraudulent, lying, predatory charlatan.

OmsgDavid and cjhsa are inoffensive, inocent toddlers compared to him.

Why all the compliments? I have no agenda. I am just one of those Americans that will not pander to a large segment in Europe that are ingrates to the help the U.S. has given Europe in the 20th century. Now that it is the nuclear age, and Europeans have decided not to kill each other for the most part, and live at some level of peace, Europe can downplay the contribution to Europe that the U.S. made in the last century. That is not an agenda. That is just not being a sycophant for Europe, and its superiority complex (based on its oh so sophisticated mores and culture).

I do not call you names; I do not dislike you. I just do not want to know you.

There is nothing to really prove, relative to my thinking. I just value America. And do not value Europe, as I believe, Europe has become accustomed to being valued for centuries of its dominant position in the world. Sorry, Europe, not just Britain, has had the sun set on its Empire.

I am sorry if my nationalistic ways annoy you? Or, perhaps it is my contempt for Europe? Either way, the good news is that you are happy in your country, and me in mine.

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@Francis,

Francis wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:
.. that Francisco Franco, whose "neutral" government in Spain was unabashedly-pro Hitler and pro-Nazi, actually helped Jews escape from Germany. Boggles the mind, that does.

Well, it can be mind-boggling to you, MA, but not to me.

Since quite a while now, I have spotted Foofie's direst malevolence.

His ways of twisting history as to adapt his propaganda agenda are simply disgusting.

His half-baked statements are only pretenses to true knowledge, but they are deleterious to humankind.

It upsets me to highest point that people can believe his assertions.

He is truly human garbage. He is a fraudulent, lying, predatory charlatan.

OmsgDavid and cjhsa are inoffensive, inocent toddlers compared to him.

Foofie is Jewish. Interesting how some may think a Jewish American should not think about the minimal concern, during WWII, of the Final Solution by so many Europeans. Oh, and the Vichy government should just be forgotten too, I guess. So, I guess, I will annoy some Europeans for not being an amnesiac. At least Europe is having the same financial crises as the U.S.

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@Merry Andrew,

I know about the great problem with the men from Balticum. Swedes are aware of the problem today and it is discussed.
One of them got sick and did not have to leave, but had to go to hospital, met a nurse and married her later. I know them very well, so I know about the story. She is now over 90 and we have good contact.
During the war 70 000 children were evakuated from Finland.
44 ooo Norwegians and 18 000 Danes lived as refugees in Sweden
After the war Sweden took 45 000 refugees from concentrationcamps in Germany.Fall 1944 80 000 fled from Estonia and 30 000 came to Sweden
The first refugees from Lettland came on boats 1943 More than 200 000 fled and 5 000 came to Sweden
75 000 fled LItuania but only 500 came to Sweden
At the end of the war 440 000 fled Karelen and went to Finland.

De första flyktingarna från Lettland tog sig över ?-stersjön 1943. Fler än 200 000 letter flydde sitt hemland och vid krigsslutet fanns det omkring 5 000 lettiska flyktingar i Sverige. Omkring 75 000 människor flydde från Litauen till väst och en mindre grupp på 500 litauiska flyktingar bosatte sig i Sverige.

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@Foofie,

I'm not talking to an American, be he Jewish or not.

I'm not talking as an European, but as an human being.

I'm talking to a twisted person wich twisted ways are damageable to humanhood.

You are so cynical that you even try to shift what I'm telling YOU to the story of the horrible sufferings of the Jewish people, while you hadn't suffered anything.

All you touch turns to filth.

Be advised that my good Jewish friends (Americans and other, who I cherish) despise you as much as I do.

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@saab,

Quote:

De första flyktingarna från Lettland tog sig över ?-stersjön 1943. Fler än 200 000 letter flydde sitt hemland och vid krigsslutet fanns det omkring 5 000 lettiska flyktingar i Sverige. Omkring 75 000 människor flydde från Litauen till väst och en mindre grupp på 500 litauiska flyktingar bosatte sig i Sverige.

My Swedish is very poor, Saab, but do I understand correctly that out of a total of about 200,000 Latvians who became refugees during the war, only 5,000 fled to Sweden? I would have thought the number was greater than that. It was relatively easy to sail a small fishing vessel right across the Baltic Sea, whereas fleeing overland meant going into German territry.

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@Merry Andrew,

Should have translated.
The first refugees from Latvia came over the Baltic Sea 1943.
More than 200 000 Latvians fled their homecountry and by the end of the war there were 5 000 Latvians refugees in Sweden.
About 75 000 people fled from Lituania to the west and a small group of 500 settled in Sweden.
Where the refugees went from Sweden I don´t know.

De första flyktingarna från Lettland tog sig över ?-stersjön 1943. Fler än 200 000 letter flydde sitt hemland och vid krigsslutet fanns det omkring 5 000 lettiska flyktingar i Sverige. Omkring 75 000 människor flydde från Litauen till väst och en mindre grupp på 500 litauiska flyktingar bosatte sig i Sverige.

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Foofie probably never knew and/or never learned that the Americans refused
entry to thousands of Jews fleeing Nazi-Germany by ship. After being rejected
by the Americans they had no other choice than to return to Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_St._Louis

1 Reply

'Jesus was born in June', astronomers claim

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