65
   

Let's get rid of the Electoral College

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2009 12:42 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Simply think of those matters you wouldn't be prepared to discuss with Mom. Everything else is what I meant by subjects which wouldn't matter.

You would have no need to fear her doing anything if you didn't raise the subjects. You might not have anything to fear if you did. You might prejudge her.

So you inflict phonetic spelling upon us and yet you didn't on your other readers. But maybe your publisher stopped you.

It's an affectation Dave.

BTW-- "published author" covers a very wide range. Like "journalist" does.

OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2009 04:33 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:


Quote:
Simply think of those matters you wouldn't be prepared to discuss with Mom.
Everything else is what I meant by subjects which wouldn't matter.

You would have no need to fear her doing anything if you didn't raise the subjects.
You might not have anything to fear if you did. You might prejudge her.

That is a question of preserving my privacy
and observing standards of good taste, not wallowing in fear.



Quote:

So you inflict phonetic spelling upon us and yet you didn't
on your other readers. But maybe your publisher stopped you.

Without getting specific, I have held public office (from which I have retired).
It woud have been unthinkable for me to address the public
ex officio declaring my decisions on behalf of the State,
employing such a deviation from conventional use.
My mental health woud have called into question.
That is 100% certain.
It makes me laff to think of using that means to express myself
on issues of controversy in that circumstance.
I have also published material anonymously;
I coud have freely used fonetic spelling there,
but I sought not to distract from substantive matters in dispute,
nor to undermine plausibility. It can be better to handle one fight
at a time; I have taken that principle into account here
and in other fora, when pressing arguments of higher levels
of controversy, to the effect of reducing use of fonetic spelling.



Quote:
It's an affectation Dave.

It will be what it IS.
It is my modest effort to tear down the paradime
insofar as it does not deserve to exist; i.e., to the extent
that it offends logic by its wasteful inefficiency.
Those folks who don 't support me r complicit.
I demonstrate better n faster ways to write.
That 's especially significant to A2K newcomers.
I also do it in other fora.
I consider myself to have been a victim
of educational abuse, in that teachers perpetrated
professional negligence upon me, resulting in my
having spent well over 50 years in writing the rong way.
It is rong to perpetuate that.
I am comforted that it is crumbling,
in large part from YOUTHFUL rejection of waste,
in their texting. The future is in the hands of the youth.



Quote:
BTW-- "published author" covers a very wide range. Like "journalist" does.

U r enabled to define it, insomuch as u
attributed fear of female relatives to them.
I did not know whether I was included within the target of your allegation.
I was wondering.


David
0 Replies
 
jioday
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 04:10 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I can count only two times since the Civil War that the Electoral College gave the election to other than the winner of a plurality of the popular vote.
Cleveland and Gore were the losers.

joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 05:32 pm
@jioday,
And Samuel Tilden in 1876.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Aug, 2009 04:52 pm
Didn't Bob Beckel have a hand in instituting the electoral college?
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2009 07:50 am
@RexRed,
Tell me that you are being stupid on purpose.
You cant truly be this dumb, are you?

How could someone alive today have helped create something over 150 years ago?

parados
 
  3  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2009 09:05 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
How could someone alive today have helped create something over 150 years ago?


You're not still living in the 50s, are you MM?
RexRed
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2009 10:48 am
@mysteryman,
Does everything that comes out of your mouth have to be prefaced with a character assault?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2009 11:41 am
@parados,
Quote:
You're not still living in the 50s, are you MM?


No, but I wanted to give red the benefit of the doubt.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 02:32 am
@Robert Gentel,
That makes sense!
I have been hating China's voting procedure that definitely deprives common people's right to elect their own president. But when I took a close look at that of Amerca's, I was more or less disappointed. Rebert, you've took the words out of my mouth about this matter.

The only question is: If every American votes their President absolutely directly, the vote counting will be very hard; without the electoral college, it seems not operationable, at least for the present. Just look into the recount story of the 2000 presidential election, you will have an impression that sometimes whether a vote is effective or not can cost your time a lot.

Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 09:05 am
@oristarA,
Nice to see you venture out of the English topics oristarA. As a matter of curiosity, do you think that the dissatisfaction with the Chinese political process is common among China's youth?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 06:04 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Dissatisfaction is normal for the youth Bob. All these old codgers clinging on to the power and the money is bound to cause dissatisfaction to the idealism of the students.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Sep, 2009 06:42 am
@Robert Gentel,
I think so. But China's youth has turned out to be cynical about politics since 1999 Tiananmen massacre. They prefer Econocracy to Democracy.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Sep, 2009 07:01 am
@oristarA,
The electoral college does nothing to facilitate the election process--if anything, it slows down the official process. As far as knowing what the vote is, the news media get that information out within hours of the closing of the polls in the Pacific.

When the constitution was being written, the most important divisive factor was the struggle between small states (which is to say, small in population) and the large states. This meant, essentially, that New York and New Jersey, with small populations (unlike today) were pitted against Virginia and Massachusetts, with large populations (Virginia is no longer a large state in terms of population--in 1787, it had the largest population of any state). There were other important issues, too, of course, but that was the big one. The Second Continental Congress had governed the United States since 1775, and had become simply the Continental Congress, and operated under the Articles of Confederation. The Continental Congress was "unicameral," a Latin construction meaning "one room," and pointing out that there was only one "house" in the legislature (now, we have two "houses," the House of Representatives and the Senate, so the legislature is now bicameral).

Many delegates from small states had arrived in Philadelphia in 1787 with instructions from their state legislatures not to vote for any legislature with proportional representation. The means the number of representatives would be chosen on the basis of population. The Continental Congress had no set number of delegates, and every state had just one vote--which was called equal representation. Some delegates had instructions to withdraw from the constitutional convention altogether if anyone proposed a proportional representation.

Those boys were no dummies, and they resolved the convention into a committee of the whole (everyone there on one committee) so that they could talk it about without technically violating the instructions of delegates from small states. To resolve the issue of representation, two compromises were worked out. One was that the legislature, the Congress, would have two houses--the House of Representatives in which the states would be represented proportionately, based on population; and the Senate, in which every state would be equally represented, with two members. Because it was, technically, a committee, the delegates from the small states had time to contact their state legislatures to work out the deal. The House would be the only place in which money bills could originate, which was only fair, because the states with large populations would be providing the most tax and impost revenue. The Senate would have special sovereignty powers in which each state would have an equal part. Officers of the executive branch--any government official appointed by the President--have to be approved by the Senate. Treaties and alliances with foreign powers have to be approved by a vote of two thirds of the Senate.

The other compromise which was created to allay the fears of the small states that they would be swallowed up by the large states was the electoral college. Each state has a number of votes in the college equivalent to their representation in Congress. So, for example, a state like Montana, which is so sparsely populated that they only have one Representative in the House, still gets three electoral votes because they also have two Senators, just like every other state does.

The electoral college was not created because the founding fathers were contemptuous of democracy, as so many people erroneously claim. It was not created to either make elections faster and easier, nor to make them slower and more difficult to conduct. It was created as a compromise to assure states with small populations that they would not be overwhelmed by the states with large populations. That's all it intended.

I think the electoral college is a good idea. I would not want to see it eliminated. I doubt if it will be any time soon, certainly not in my lifetime. It would require a constitutional amendment, which means that two thirds of the Senate and the House have to agree on an amendment, and then it would have to be ratified by three fourths of the states.

That ain'ta gonna happen.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Sep, 2009 08:05 am
@Setanta,
Set is probably correct in his conclusion but a factor which weighed on the politicians at the time was the difficulty of communication in a federation which embraced far flung territories.

That factor is of considerably less importance today. It might be said to be insignificant.

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 05:55 am
Historically speaking, what Setanta said is reasonable.
But talking it in a fashionable manner, what Robert pointed out is acceptable.
Yes, it needs time to make an amendment.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 09:47 am
Yeah, let's but it will happen when there is universal health care in the US and when pigs fly.

Actually, with gene splicing, etc., flying pigs might come first.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:16 am
We never seem to rid ourselves of it, do we?
0 Replies
 
babsatamelia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 01:17 pm
I agree - get rid of the meddlesome anomalies from eons in the past! Begone
with all that is ancient and pointless in government today.
okie
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 11 Jul, 2010 07:18 pm
@babsatamelia,
So getting rid of the meddlesome things like the constitution, yes, that is not surprising that liberal radicals would favor that.
0 Replies
 
 

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