64
   

Let's get rid of the Electoral College

 
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:47 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Here is a different argument. According to some posters I don't understand the system. I have an IQ of 160.
Any voting system should be simple or it disenfranchises people. People dont see the point in voting in a system they don't understand. I apologise for the nature of some of my posts: however it seems that there are people here who try and shout down logical argument.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:48 pm
@Fountofwisdom,
Sure, but I don't want to derail the thread into discussion about figures of speech either.
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:51 pm
@mysteryman,
This is a reference to the world wildlife fund, wanting to prevent an endangered species,the polar bear from becoming extinct. The worldwide ban was vetoed by one country of barbaric eco-destroyers.
Global warming is also destroying the natural habitat of the polar bear. The point was too sutle for you.
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 8 Jan, 2009 11:55 pm
@mysteryman,
50% of Americans don't travel. The most common reason for Americans to travel is to invade people. These are facts.
I have never said I wouldn't change the system in England, altho it is very dynamic.
This post is about the Electoral college. I am happy to discuss changes to the British system.
Spendius is essentially correct; people who get elected by a system dont want it changed
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 12:00 am
@georgeob1,
They are none of my concern because? I should be ignorant like an American? Or because I disagree with you.
I have never defended British Imperialism: I do point out that this effectively ended in 1948. America still allowed states to ban black from voting then.
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 12:02 am
@joefromchicago,
Is it called the windy city because the people are flatulent? Or because the people spout endless dogwoofle?
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 12:14 am
@Fountofwisdom,
This thread just got about 25% smaller. Thanks "ignore" feature!
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 06:00 am
@spendius,
Americans actually have a huge penis. They call him Mr President
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 08:26 am
@georgeob1,
O'George wrote:
Countries in which these factors were not present are relatively unaffected.


This is absolutely true. The same conditions did not obtain in Canada, and the only effects have been indirect. At first, the financial crisis in the United States caused the Canadian dollar to soar, relative to the American dollar, which had a temporary effect of reducing Canadian exports to the United States. But the softwood lumber dispute between the two countries has been a loner lasting and more significant economic factor in Canada, and the currency "imbalance" has "corrected" itself rather quickly.

The Canadian housing market has slumped due to the unavoidable effect of the depressed American economy, but the construction industry has not suffered badly--once again, the effect is only referential to the American financial crisis. The banking system in Canada remains sound, and is simply cautioning people about the investment climate.

The nations which are suffering significantly right now are those who were heavily involved in credit activities such as those which damaged the American economy, or which had invested heavily in the unsound credit instruments being issued by American banks and securities dealers.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 12:26 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
The point when the subject of the thread was still being discussed.

No, I'm disinterested. Which is why I ask that it be taken elsewhere instead of derailing this one.


There's nothing to derail. The EC is here to stay. It is the EC that is being trolled.

Any discussion about getting rid of the EC is pointless without offering an alternative.

georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 12:31 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

There's nothing to derail. The EC is here to stay. It is the EC that is being trolled.

Any discussion about getting rid of the EC is pointless without offering an alternative.


Well said !
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 01:21 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

spendius wrote:

There's nothing to derail. The EC is here to stay. It is the EC that is being trolled.

Any discussion about getting rid of the EC is pointless
without offering an alternative.


Well said !

DOUBLE well said !

Its also pointless WITH offering an alternative,
inasmuch as it is NOT going to happen.


I have a better chance of getting appointed to obama 's cabinet.


David
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 01:41 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I wouldn't go that far really Dave. It could happen. The financial crisis has been called a meltdown in large letters on the front pages.

In a real meltdown, which nobody has entirely ruled out, the Union gets dissolved and war breaks out between states or groups of states in which the buildings of the EC are reduced to rubble with tank fire and smart bombs and suchlike and which goes on for a few years until everybody gets fed up and some old guys get together to have another Convention.

When I said it wouldn't happen I was meaning it was unlikely. Even very unlikely. I meant it won't happen if there's no meltdown. I think that word was used to jack up nervousness and get you all ready for some serious straightening out. Soften you up. And us. The Command Economy, which I know Mr Paulson said was a temporary measure, does seem to have tectonicated a bit don't you think?

I read last week , I think in Lefeber, that the second amendment gave Americans the right to make war on their government. The actually phrasing toned it down. The shops sold out of guns and ammo recently from what I've seen.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 03:50 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:


Quote:
I wouldn't go that far really Dave. It could happen.
The financial crisis has been called a meltdown in large letters on the front pages.

That is good for selling newspapers.
That is the purpose of headlines.
Have there been any studies to analyse
the fidelity of correspondence between
the size of headlines' fonts and the accuracy of their predictions ?



Quote:
In a real meltdown, which nobody has entirely ruled out,
the Union gets dissolved and war breaks out between states
or groups of states in which the buildings of the EC are reduced
to rubble with tank fire and smart bombs and suchlike and which
goes on for a few years until everybody gets fed up and some old
guys get together to have another Convention.

Yellowstone National Park was established upon a supervolcano
which may erupt within the next few centuries.
In my opinion, that is more likely to happen than another war
between the states.




Quote:

When I said it wouldn't happen I was meaning it was unlikely.
Even very unlikely. I meant it won't happen if there's no
meltdown. I think that word was used to jack up nervousness
and get you all ready for some serious straightening out.
Soften you up. And us.

Sure.



Quote:

The Command Economy, which I know Mr Paulson said was a temporary measure,
does seem to have tectonicated a bit don't you think?
I read last week , I think in Lefeber, that the second amendment
gave Americans the right to make war on their government.
The actually phrasing toned it down.

Well, the prevailing concept was this:
the citizens owned America and thay chose to hire
a property manager to attend to it, on a daily basis.
That employee, was government; their hireling,
which shoud not get out of hand. The Revolutionaries who
founded government in America, were mistrustful of government,
having just gone to a lot of trouble and risk to overthrow one,
and this was very manifest in The Federalist Papers,
their exhortation that the Constitution of 1787 be ratified.


In its 3rd footnote of US v. MILLER 307 US 174 (1939) the USSC
cited to USSC Justice ( 1811-45 ) and Harvard Law Professor Joseph Story,
and to Judge Thomas M. Cooley, as approved ( and adopted ) commentators.

Justice Story said:
" The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered
as the Palladium of the liberties of the republic since it offers
a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power
of the rulers; and will generally...enable the people to resist and triumph
over them." ( J. Story COMMENTARIES ON THE CONSTITUTION 746 [1833] )
[ emphasis added by David ]

On the other hand, Judge Thomas M. Cooley said of the Second Amendment:
" The right declared was meant to be a strong moral check against
the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers, and as a necessary
and efficient means of regaining rights when temporarily
overturned by usurpation.
[ emphasis added by David ]

The right is GENERAL-- It may be supposed from the phaseology
of this provision that the right to keep and bear arms was only
guaranteed to the militia; but this would be an interpretation not
warranted by the intent.... But the law may make provision for
the enrollment of all who are fit to perform military duty,
or of a small number only or it may wholly omit to make any
provision at all; and if the right were limited to those enrolled,
the purpose of this guaranty might be DEFEATED altogether
by the action OR NEGLECT TO ACT, OF THE GOVERNMENT
IT WAS MEANT TO HOLD IN CHECK
.

The meaning of the provision undoubtedly is that THE PEOPLE
FROM WHOM the militia must be taken, SHALL HAVE THE RIGHT
TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, and THEY NEED NO PERMISSION OR
REGULATION OF LAW for the purpose
. " [ emphasis added by David]
( Cooley, THE GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW
P. 281 2, 2nd Ed. 1891 )

Thus, it is shown that these respected judges found that
it was the intent of the Founders that supreme power,
PHYSICAL POWER, was to remain in the citizens,
not in their hirelings. With the ousting of the Hanoverian Dynasty
from its sovereignty over America, sovereignty was instated
in the citizens, as distinct from the government which thay
opted to bring into existence, to serve them.

Qua what arms the people have rights to keep and bear,
the US Supreme Court said in US v. MILLER 3O7 US 174 (1939)
that they should be "ordinary military equipment...
AYMETTE v. STATE 2 Hump. [21 Tenn] 154, 158."

The AYMETTE case, which the Supreme Court approvingly adopted declares:
"the arms, the right to keep which is secured, are such as are
usually employed in civilized warfare, and that constitute
ordinary military equipment. If the citizens have these arms in their hands,
they are prepared in the best possible manner to repel any
encroachments on their rights
." [emphasis added by David]
Q.E.D.: the USSC acknowledges that the Founders
were cognizant of the need of the citizens to use force to keep
their servant in line.


The 2nd Amendment was the eraser on the pencil
that thay used to create government; just in case.



Quote:

The shops sold out of guns and ammo recently from what I've seen.

Well, there are still some available.
Obama 's election has been a great boon in the personal defense industry.





David
0 Replies
 
Fountofwisdom
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 04:10 pm
I have offered a simple alternative to EC. it is called democracy.One person one vote. And a quicker timeframe.
The stuff with queues needs sorting. A will to do it. I see an increase in engagement with a system everyone understands. It's a possibility.
The defence of EC seems a little flimsy, and based on tradition than usefulness.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:17 pm
@Fountofwisdom,
Fountofwisdom wrote:

I have offered a simple alternative to EC. it is called democracy.One person one vote. And a quicker timeframe.
The stuff with queues needs sorting. A will to do it. I see an increase in engagement with a system everyone understands. It's a possibility.
The defence of EC seems a little flimsy, and based on tradition than usefulness.


I think you lack a basic understanding of the structure of our republic; how it was formed; and the principles on which it operates. No fault there - you don't live here. However, it does seem odd that, lacking this understanding or any evident curiosity about it, you are so eager to provide us with the presumed benefit of your ill-informed criticisms and suggestions.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:35 pm
@Fountofwisdom,
Fountofwisdom wrote:

I have offered a simple alternative to EC.
it is called democracy.One person one vote. And a quicker timeframe.
The stuff with queues needs sorting.
A will to do it. I see an increase in engagement with a system everyone understands. It's a possibility.
The defence of EC seems a little flimsy, and based on tradition than usefulness.

It has already been pointed out to u
that those states who hold the advantage
that was designed for their benefit by the Founders
r not about to surrender it, because thay r not stupid enuf to do that.

There is NO "will to do it" among those whose will COUNTS.

U shoud be able to understand that; its not complex.





U said:
Quote:
The stuff with queues needs sorting.

I cannot begin to guess what that means.






As to:
Quote:
a quicker timeframe

it is good for us to have plenty of time to get to know the candidates.
We have enuf time; we r not going anywhere.
If u lose interest in our elections,
u are free to forget about them.





David

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:47 pm
@georgeob1,
Additionally, he's a liar. He has, on more than one occasion, stated in these fora that he thinks democracy is overrated and outdated. He just says whatever comes into his head. He just wants to contradict what others say, and has nothing substantive to offer on this topic. In truth, he is far too ignorant of the American constitution and political system to offer anything substantive.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:52 pm
@Setanta,
I've been told it's a 'she'. However, I agree with your assessment.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 06:07 pm
@Fountofwisdom,
Well Fountie-- it is not an original idea by any means but how would you go about arranging it?
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/29/2024 at 03:28:57