Let GM go Bankrupt

The other way to lower their labor costs is to increase their automation, but that requires massive capital investment and even 'planning'..

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@SuperVolume,

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The other way to lower their labor costs is to increase their automation, but that requires massive capital investment and even 'planning'

and is not in our best interests. Our problem is too few jobs, not too many.

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DETROIT -- The fuel-efficient Chevrolet Volt won the 2011 North American Car of the Year and the Ford Explorer won the Truck of the Year prize, it was announced at the Detroit auto show Monday morning.

The car award highlights what some enthusiasts hope will be the industry's turn to alternate fuels, which so far has proved to be promise than reality.

The Volt, which can run in electric and gas modes, beat out the all-electric Nissan Leaf as well as the Hyundai Sonata, the other finalists in the competition.

In the truck contest, the Explorer won over the Dodge Durango and Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Forty-nine auto writers from the U.S. and Canada made the picks, and the award, aside from bragging rights, confers a distinction that is often featured in advertising.

The vehicles are judged on innovation, design, safety, handling, driver satisfaction and value.

MORE FROM WASHINGTON POST

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

The 2011 Exploder benefits from years of real world data and years of product upgrades & improvements.

The 2011 Jolt is a politically motivated creation that has ZERO real world data to support it's own hype.
The Obama Motors/Government Motors/GM/Chevy/Volt is a big heavy steaming pile of liberal horse ****.

Build a car that runs on liberal horse **** and you will have saved the world.

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H2O says

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The 2011 Exploder

For once he makes sense. KaBoom

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@H2O MAN,

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The Obama Motors/Government Motors/GM/Chevy/Volt is a big heavy steaming pile of liberal horse ****.

How do you figure?

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
DETROIT -- The fuel-efficient Chevrolet Volt won the 2011 North American Car of the Year and the Ford Explorer won the Truck of the Year prize, it was announced at the Detroit auto show Monday morning.

Cycloptichorn

Question, is North American Car of the Year selected based upon performance and excellence, or on being highly unusual or modernistic or something like that? Also, I think this this is the first I've heard that the Explorer was a truck. Are you sure those guys in Detroit haven't had too much to drink before they voted? Or maybe they got paid under the table? No evidence, just speculation, considering the volt won an award this year, before it actually demonstrates anything.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
DETROIT -- The fuel-efficient Chevrolet Volt won the 2011 North American Car of the Year and the Ford Explorer won the Truck of the Year prize, it was announced at the Detroit auto show Monday morning.

Cycloptichorn
Question, is North American Car of the Year selected based upon performance and excellence, or on being highly unusual or modernistic or something like that? Also, I think this this is the first I've heard that the Explorer was a truck. Are you sure those guys in Detroit haven't had too much to drink before they voted? Or maybe they got paid under the table? No evidence, just speculation, considering the volt won an award this year, before it actually demonstrates anything.

I have a hard time taking seriously someone who doesn't realize that SUVs, such as the Explorer, are classified as light trucks - and always have been. Sort of makes your criticism regarding the credentials of those who chose the Volt as the winner a little hollow.

Your evidence and speculation is fueled by political hate on your part for anything having to do with Obama - and a real desire to see GM fail instead of succeed, once again, in an effort to prove him wrong on everything. Wouldn't you agree?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I have a hard time taking seriously someone who doesn't realize that SUVs, such as the Explorer, are classified as light trucks - and always have been. Sort of makes your criticism regarding the credentials of those who chose the Volt as the winner a little hollow.

I've been around many people with those types of vehicles and have never heard anybody call an Explorer a truck. Sure, most of us know they are built on similar chassis and may be classified with trucks for the purpose of fuel efficiencies, and they often have the same engines too, but I would not consider an Explorer a truck. By the way, I've owned Ford trucks for almost 20 years, and it was GMC before that.

Quote:

Your evidence and speculation is fueled by political hate on your part for anything having to do with Obama - and a real desire to see GM fail instead of succeed, once again, in an effort to prove him wrong on everything. Wouldn't you agree?
Cycloptichorn

Absolutely not, I do not agree. I do not hate Obama or the Democrats, but I do strongly disagree with them. I grew up in a General Motors family, not working for them, but driving Chevys. My first car was a 57 Chevy. I don't wish them to fail, but I admit to not being a fan of GM anymore, not after taking the bailout. I call them Government Motors. I am not at all convinced the Volt will be successful, and we know it hasn't even been launched in any significant way, so I think car of the year was politically motivated as much as it was actually deserved. I know I would not pay 40 grand for a questionable car of that type. It could turn out to be good, and I am not opposed to electric cars overall, but I will choose to wait some years before invesing in one. I am pretty much that way with every new gadget coming down the pike. I wait to see how they work out, and usually the prices and quality improve by then as well.

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@okie,

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I know I would not pay 40 grand for a questionable car of that type.

Here's the thing: what exactly is questionable about it? It works. It's not as if the technology doesn't work. Sure, it's expensive right now, but that will change as the plants that manufacture the batteries and other parts of the new engines scale up.

If people want it, let 'em buy it. If enough people want these cars, then Chevy will look like geniuses. If I had the money I would buy a car like this, because it would allow me to do 99% of my driving without using ANY gasoline. What's so bad about that?

New cars, new innovations are always front-runners for awards like this. I don't know what's so odd about that. Every other car this year is basically a refinement or repackaging of the idea that came before. The only really new ideas out there are the Volt and the Nissan Leaf. It's not surprising when they win awards.

Cycloptichorn

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@okie,

Quote:

Absolutely not, I do not agree. I do not hate Obama or the Democrats, but I do strongly disagree with them. I grew up in a General Motors family, not working for them, but driving Chevys. My first car was a 57 Chevy. I don't wish them to fail, but I admit to not being a fan of GM anymore, not after taking the bailout. I call them Government Motors. I am not at all convinced the Volt will be successful, and we know it hasn't even been launched in any significant way, so I think car of the year was politically motivated as much as it was actually deserved. I know I would not pay 40 grand for a questionable car of that type. It could turn out to be good,

It look like government motor is on it way to earning a profit for the government investment in it.

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@okie,

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The winners were revealed Monday morning at a news conference at the North American International Auto Show.

While hybrid vehicles have won four times in the 18 years that the awards have been given this was the first win for a vehicle that can move a meaningful distance on electric power alone.

The winners were chosen by a jury of 49 automotive journalists from the United States and Canada.

The awards are unique in the United States because instead of being given by a single media outlet they are awarded by a coalition of automotive journalists from the United States and Canada who represent magazines, television, radio, newspapers and web sites.

The awards are designed to recognize the most outstanding new vehicles of the year. These vehicles are benchmarks in their segments based on factors including innovation, design, safety, handling, driver satisfaction and value for the dollar.

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@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
The awards are designed to recognize the most outstanding new vehicles of the year. These vehicles are benchmarks in their segments based on factors including innovation, design, safety, handling, driver satisfaction and value for the dollar.

The Volt may be innovative and not a bad design, but it would seem to me that the jury should still be out regarding at least safety, driver satisfaction, and value for the dollar. Are you going to cough up 40 grand for one, dys ?

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@okie,

okie, my post was only an explanation (40 journalists chose the 2011 car of the year) has nothing to do with my thinking. I would think you knew my choice would be a Porsche 911.

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@dyslexia,

Porsche 911 sure sounded familiar. I worked with a guy that bought one of those I think about 72. It sure irritated him when I beat him off the line with my Malibu with a plain old 307 in it.

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@BillRM,

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It look like government motor is on it way to earning a profit for the government investment in it.

I am not sure how a company FAILS to make a short term profit when it is given the ability to shed both assets and liabilities at will in an extra legal process where the stake-holders rights are almost completely excluded from the process.

This does not mean that what was done was right, or smart. We can start with moral hazard in the list of problems created for the future by this violation of capitalism theory and of bankruptcy law

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@okie,

yeah 307 c.i. v-8 up against a 146 c.i. 6 cyc off the line no contest, however my 195 c.i. against your 307 c.i. on the open road you be eating my dust.

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@hawkeye10,

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am not sure how a company FAILS to make a short term profit when it is given the ability to shed both assets and liabilities at will in an extra legal process where the stake-holders rights are almost completely excluded from the process.

Extra legal?

How my friend is the GM case extra legal as the government lawmakers IE the ones who have the power to make the laws are the ones who set up and or approve the bail out terms.

The bail out happen to be outside the normal framework of how we deal with such situations but it hardly seem extra legal or for that matter the first time such a deal had been done to bail out an automobile firm by many decades.

Most of what you also seem to be complaining about IE ”the ability to shed both assets and liabilities” also happen in almost all business bankrupts thousands hell tens of thousands of time every year.

The only thing that is not found in a normal business bankrupts is the government willingness to act as a source of loans and credit to GM.

The government deal with failing banks many times in a similar manner for that matter and had been doing so since before I had been born.

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@BillRM,

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The only thing that is not found in a normal business bankrupts is the government willingness to act as a source of loans and credit to GM.

So is it your position that in standard bankruptcy the state walks away from the process a part owner of the company that went through it? It is your position that in a normal bankruptcy the state not only argues for the deal that IT wants but also puts pressure on all parties to agree to its conditions??

I think that the normal process is between the failed company and its creditors, that the only government part of the process is that the court adjudicates it, but maybe I am wrong ....

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@hawkeye10,

I have to disagree here.
An increase in automation does not always mean a decrease in jobs. The company I work at has turned one of their production lines fully automatic.
Not only did nobody lose their jobs, the company has hired 50 more people to keep up with the line.
Those people are forklift operators, material handlers, loaders, metal sorters, and the various other jobs this plant has.
All of those jobs pay some of the best wages in the area, over $15 per hour to start, with full benefits.

1 Reply

Let GM go Bankrupt

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