34
   

Let GM go Bankrupt

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 08:25 pm
@MontereyJack,
How is the koolaid (Obamalaid) tasting lately, MJ? It has to be getting a little bitter by now, if you are honest about it.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 12:14 pm
Koolaid rots your teeth. Never touch the stuff, even metaphorically.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 12:30 pm
Okie, even Bill Ford, CEO of the American auto company that did NOT need a bailout, thinks you've gotten the DTs from drinking the Fox moonshine:

(thanks to ci for the quote from MotorAuthority)

Quote:
It's easy to look at the bailouts and bankruptcies of General Motors and Chrysler as a big-government bonanza. Some even see tints of socialism in the loans and subsequent government ownership stakes. But as Ford points out today, there was more at stake than just two companies.

The entire industry, and in some ways, the entire U.S. economy, was riding on the survival of GM and Chrysler, says Ford Motor Co executive chairman Bill Ford, Jr. "It would have been so catastrophic to have a supply-base meltdown because it would have brought down all the auto manufacturers and frankly some other industries as well," Ford told CNBC TV according to an Automotive News report.
A cascading chain of bankruptcies was one of the primary fears of an unassisted GM or Chrysler bankruptcy. Because so many companies rely on GM and Chrysler to purchase their parts, and because there's no easy replacement outlet for those parts, there's no way for the supplier base to survive without them


Obamaaid worked, no thanks to the far right.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 12:33 pm
@MontereyJack,
He'll never agree that it was a good thing, because Obama was for it. Therefore, it was an evil and stupid move - no matter how well things turn out.

Modern Conservatism has a lot more to do with high-school level power struggles, and the precious fee-fees of their voters and politicians, than it does common sense.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 12:36 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
A cascading chain of bankruptcies was one of the primary fears of an unassisted GM or Chrysler bankruptcy. Because so many companies rely on GM and Chrysler to purchase their parts, and because there's no easy replacement outlet for those parts, there's no way for the supplier base to survive without them.


Which means, in ordinary plain English, that the industry was bailed out because it had you all by the balls.

How did you allow that to happen?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 01:25 pm
How? Okie had to have his SUV to drive down to the corner store for a 6-pack.
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 01:36 pm
Actually, once you get beyond the technological level of wooden ships and hand looms,and start to develop an interdependent national or global economy which relies on products that need many different suppliers, it's probably inevitable.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 01:45 pm
In America it was called "too big to fail". "Got you by the balls" describes it too. Happened everywhere else in the world as well.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jul, 2011 03:55 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

How? Okie had to have his SUV to drive down to the corner store for a 6-pack.
@I don't have a corner store nearby, plus I don't drink, not even beer. I rarely buy anything in a conveneience store, as I don't enjoy watching the tattooed decrepit hobble in with their oxygen tanks to buy lottery tickets with their last dollars.

As far as the bailout of GM and Chrysler, I am happy if it works out, but I think there are better solutions, so that those companies would never have needed to be in the situations they were in. I have posted this plenty, but my solution would be the elimination of all income tax upon corporations or businesses, and replaced with a national sales tax, known as the "Fair Tax." I would also make it easier for companies to deal with unions that demand so much that they are virtually able to put them out of business. My second choice would be the elimination of the income tax on business and corporations, replaced with higher marginal income taxes upon individuals

My primary objection to the bailouts due to some weird concept of too big to fail, is the fact that this country should not play favorites based upon size or who you are. Example, if its okay to bail out the big guys, why not the Mom & Pop operations all over this country that routinely go belly up. I think our policies should be based upon principle, not upon special treatment based upon size, or perhaps for all we know, who contributed the most campaign dollars, etc. etc.
P.S. I am not at all convinced GM or Chrysler will be successful in the future and that they won't get into the same or worse trouble in the next few years.
kkall
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 08:51 am
@okie,
Good comments on this old thread. If it hasn't been said I would add the basic capitalist Shumpeter response of creative destruction. Allowing GM/Chrusler to go bankrupt doesn't mean all those factories shut down and everyone working there loses a job. Bankruptcies work in capitalism by allowing new investors to come in with a clean slate with no debts & no unions & buy up the assets in foreclosure for 10 cents on the dollar to create a new low cost base to build cars more efficiently. Maybe 5 or 10 new much smaller car makers would have sprouted up to compete more profitably than any current auto makers in the US today. We will never know. Gov' protecting people from losing jobs often causes more jobs to be lost in the long run.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 09:52 am
@kkall,
Quote:
Bankruptcies work in capitalism by allowing new investors to come in with a clean slate with no debts & no unions & buy up the assets in foreclosure for 10 cents on the dollar to create a new low cost base to build cars more efficiently.


You have to remember that we were in the middle of a gigantic financial/liquidity crisis at this time. Banks weren't able to offer bridge financing the way they would have in a normal time period due to the crisis, so it was believed that the industry would collapse in a highly inefficient manner, and many American jobs would be lost. That wasn't acceptable during a time period in which we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month already.

Quote:
Allowing GM/Chrusler to go bankrupt doesn't mean all those factories shut down and everyone working there loses a job


I think that there actually would have been quite a bit of this.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 09:55 am
Buy a FORD.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 07:39 pm
@kkall,
There are a few problems with your scenario kkall.
The number one problem is GM/Chrysler DID go through bankruptcy. It's just that the bankruptcy was funded by the only entity capable of buying GM/Chrysler for a few cents on the dollar. That entity was the US government.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 08:06 pm
@parados,
Quote:
The number one problem is GM/Chrysler DID go through bankruptcy. It's just that the bankruptcy was funded by the only entity capable of buying GM/Chrysler for a few cents on the dollar. That entity was the US government


"Just is the right word only after you write out of history that the US Government decided what it wanted to do and then bullied its will upon all parties. Hell, up until pressure was applied GMC had no intention of filing for bankruptcy at all.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2011 08:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
The number one problem is GM/Chrysler DID go through bankruptcy. It's just that the bankruptcy was funded by the only entity capable of buying GM/Chrysler for a few cents on the dollar. That entity was the US government


"Just is the right word only after you write out of history that the US Government decided what it wanted to do and then bullied its will upon all parties. Hell, up until pressure was applied GMC had no intention of filing for bankruptcy at all.


Uh, they would have had no choice if we weren't pumping money into them already. Remember that Bush started bailing them out way back at the beginning of 2008.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2011 06:59 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Hell, up until pressure was applied GMC had no intention of filing for bankruptcy at all.

Considering they were running out of cash, what were their options without a government bailout? Bankruptcy was the only one. How many companies can continue to operate with no cash, more liabilities than assets, and no future sales bookings to cover current debts?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2011 08:34 pm
Quote:
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Co posted a lower third-quarter profit on losses in Europe and offered a disappointing outlook that raised doubts about the speed of its turnaround two years after emerging from bankruptcy.
GM vowed to slash costs to shore up margins and said it would consider closing plants in its sputtering European unit, but its fourth-quarter outlook disappointed investors and sent shares tumbling 11 percent on Wednesday.
The percentage drop was the largest one-day decline since the company's initial public stock offering in November 2010.
Worries about slowing growth in key markets like Brazil and the continued drag from Europe prompted questions about whether the top U.S. automaker had taken its foot off the pedal after a 2009 taxpayer-funded restructuring wiped away its debt.
Chief Executive Dan Akerson called the third-quarter profit of $1.7 billion "solid" but quickly added "solid isn't good enough," an unusually stark assessment from a company long-criticized for moving too slowly to admit mistakes and force changes.
GM executives conceded the automaker needed to follow Ford Motor Co in streamlining historically tangled operations. Under the slogan "One Ford," CEO Alan Mulally has pushed GM's smaller rival to unify its vehicle development and purchasing over the past five years

http://beta.finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-profit-beats-street-cuts-123536939.html

There is a shocker right there! *sarcasm*

The problem with new GM is the same problem of old GM...crappy management that does not know how to build stuff that customers want with-in a reasonable cost. America would have been better off if we had let these assets go to some company(s) that are capable of execution.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 04:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
In the news today GM announced that it will stop making Volts for 5 weeks because they can't sell them. Concurrently GM announced that its previous story that slow sales are a result of not enough supply is not true.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 05:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
why the glee? Are you trying to salvage some credibility from yor previous bogus predictions?
I think the NEW GM is entirely fifferent than the old. The old GM would have kept making a product (cf: The SATURN) even when market reports were waaay soft. If the volt doesnt sell and GM recognizes it after two quarters.To me, thats turning an aircraft carrier around in a drainage ditch.
With gas going through the roof, I wonder the next market trend on cars? Local auto distributor services showed a return to gas sipping cars but nit a trend toward things like hybrids and plug in hybrids. I have no idea why. Ford has decided to qu it the hybrid Ascape SUV (My car that I love) in favor of "Ecoboost" SUVs packing four and six cylinder engines with 35 to 45 mpg and larger ranges. The new Escapes will actually be more petrol frugal than the hybrids if you count in the cost for battery replacement at 7500 (and rising).

Also, with all the GOpers expressing a desire to allow GM and Chrysler to "go bankrupt" will pay dividends for Obama as the electorate recall that ALL the GOPers wanted to ditch the Michigan based auto industry and toss in a virtual towel because they have no balls to do the tough job.


hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 06:12 pm
@farmerman,
What glee? I don't think you got that from my words....you immagined it didn't you...
0 Replies
 
 

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