OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 01:43 pm
@cjhsa,
Quote:

I was most definitely not pro-McCain,
but he was the only capitalist running between the two major parties.

Yeah.
For 99% of his career, I held McCain in contempt and abhorence,
with his "campaign finance reform." That raped the First Amendment 4 different ways.
Fortunately, it also was ineffective: credit to the mind and spirit of Man.
I 'd have had a very, very tuff time holding my nose n voting for him
if he had not put Sarah on the ticket.

I did not like the Bushes, and I liked McCain less than the Bushes.
Its just that he is not as bad as Biden nor Oboy
and Sarah is (mostly) libertarian.





David
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 07:10 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Ironic that the man of finance reform fame was taken down by unprecedented campaign spending by Obama, much of the money coming from sources unknown.
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Nov, 2008 07:25 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DTOM, well thanks, good summary. Glad you understand where I stand, and I see your opinion.

Growing up, hey, we ate bread and gravy for some meals, because we did not have much money, and some of my shirts were sewn from flower sacks, by my mother. Okay, fast forward, I came from an area and attended a college that did not have a bunch of protestors, they were foreign to our culture, and protesting was foreign to the mindset of the people in the community, we farmed, we were too busy working. Fast forward alot more, I worked hard, I went to school, now I am not rich by any means, but hopefully if my retirement funds do not melt completely away, I hope to retire so that we can at least live somewhat comfortably, but our lifestyle is not luxurious, we prefer it that way. Now, everyone I know that has been responsible in their life is also pretty comfortable.

Also, LBJ, a Democrat, caused me to go to Vietnam, I went, I came back, I made up my mind that I would make the best of it. Now, LBJ deceived us into war, however, by the same token, I detest communism, and today, the Vietnamese mostly love us, I do not look back at that as something to beat ourselves up over.

So, I understand going with the flow, but what if the flow is in the wrong direction, DTOM? I think it is incumbent upon somebody to stand up and say, hey you guys, the path we are on is not going to take us anywhere very pleasant. And too many people have died for principles to simply roll over and let it all drift away, no way. I have children and grandchildren that I think are worth fighting for.

And I see now politicians that are basically charlatans, and people are falling for it, hook line and sinker. I am not going to stay quiet about it. I am going to speak up until they come to my door and cart me away.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 11:36 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'd have had a very, very tuff time holding my nose n voting for him
if he had not put Sarah on the ticket.

I did not like the Bushes, and I liked McCain less than the Bushes.
Its just that he is not as bad as Biden nor Oboy
and Sarah is (mostly) libertarian.


hmm... guess nobody, conservative or liberal measures up to your high standards...

except a backstabbing rip off artist from east bufu alaska?

dude, you're a trip.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 11:49 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
... and some of my shirts were sewn from flower sacks, ...

Correction, "flour sacks"
cjhsa
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 12:32 pm
@okie,
I'm pretty sure Obama's campaign was financed by thousands of donations that hit the maximum for a single donation. These came from overseas and George Soros and all sorts of nefarious sources. The Demonrats have sold out our nation to get this douche elected and now he has to pay back those debts.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:03 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:

and Sarah is (mostly) libertarian.


Did you fall off your high horse and hit your head? Palin is...is...god I can't even say it....libertarian???

Definition: Libertarianism is, as the name implies, the belief in liberty. Libertarians strive for the best of all worlds - a free, peaceful, abundant world where each individual has the maximum opportunity to pursue his or her dreams and to realize his full potential.

But things like, your right to choose or stem-cell research or physician-assisted suicide or same-sex marriage or your right to smoke pot....those things aren't about your liberty or freedom of choice. Rolling Eyes

I'd say she's mostly NOT libertarian.

Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:21 pm
@Bella Dea,
Bella Dea-Agree. Being mostly libertarian is like being slightly pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. And Palin certainly isn't.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:23 pm
@Bella Dea,
Quote:

Did you fall off your high horse and hit your head?
Palin is...is...god I can't even say it....libertarian???

Definition: Libertarianism is, as the name implies, the belief in liberty.
Libertarians strive for the best of all worlds - a free, peaceful,
abundant world where each individual has the maximum
opportunity to pursue his or her dreams and to realize his full potential.

But things like, your right to choose or stem-cell research or
physician-assisted suicide or same-sex marriage or your right to
smoke pot....those things aren't about your liberty or freedom of choice.

I'd say she's mostly NOT libertarian.

Well, I support the freedom that u have indicated,
and I must concede that these considerations are indeed very important
(subject to the understanding that full bilateral freedom of contract is preserved)
but I believe that thay are exceptions to her general libertarianism.

McC is not much of a freedom lover,
(witness his anti-First Amendment campaign finance reform).
He put Sarah on the ticket to attract libertarians to support him,
or his campaign woud have just perished from boredom and indifference.
Without Sarah, his campaign woud have been lifeless from the beginning.

Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:25 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
In the theatre Dave, that is called comic relief...
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:36 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

And I see now politicians that are basically charlatans, and people are falling for it, hook line and sinker. I am not going to stay quiet about it. I am going to speak up until they come to my door and cart me away.


politicians? yeah, they do tend to sell the various varieties of snake oil, don't they? unfortunately, we have to have somebody to run the country, or else we have total anarchy. although it's hard to tell the difference some times. Laughing

your take on vietnam was interesting. my dad was a vet of wwII and korea. he was what you'd call gung ho during vietnam. big time. but last year, we had an interesting conversation about the iraq war. i told him i had a real problem with iraq but i had supported the afghanistan effort from the beginning. that really surprised him. i said, "well, not all wars are bad". so imagine my even greater surprise when he looked at me and commented; "and not all wars are necessary". wow. then he added, "wars are started by old men for young men to fight". i made a joke about "welcome to the movement, brother" and we moved on. it was a real moment of understanding between us.

i get your drift about protest being foreign in your community. louisville wasn't a real hotbed of liberal thinking at the time. it didn't take a lot to get the hairy eyeball.

the thing is, protest is a seminal component of american values. think about it. the boston tea party. bunker hill. when people feel like they are getting the shaft, they tend to be pretty vocal about it. like most people, sometimes i agree, sometimes i don't. in any case, whether or not i agree with someone's, uhhh, vocalization of dissatisfaction, i appreciate that they at least feel something. a lot of people can't be bothered.

about the flow? right/wrong direction. one of the things that always amuses me is when the talking heads cite the polls about it. "a recent poll reveals that %81 of the american people feel the country is headed in the wrong direction". what they don't really pay attention to, is that while x number of people may believe that, not everyone feels that way for the same reason.

my personal gripe is the country's extreme polarization. my second gripe is that for the most part it has been manufactured by self serving politicians to benefit their self interests. they keep getting what they want and we keep letting them do it because they have managed to set the american people at each other's throats over wedge issues. abortion rights for example. something like %75 +/- of the people are in favor of keeping it legal and safe (again with the polls???), yet it has been a defining issue for decades. why? because if people are barking at each other they aren't paying attention to the country being sold off to the communist chinese. at least not in time to do much about it.

and for that reason, what i would really like to see is the country's return to a more centrist or moderate place in terms of social issues.

anyway, i have a better idea of where your head is at now, and like i said before, i may not agree with you on position, but i appreciate that at least you give a damn.

take care, okie. / dtom
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:37 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

okie wrote:
... and some of my shirts were sewn from flower sacks, ...

Correction, "flour sacks"

Laughing yeah. flower sacks didn't really seem like your style.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:39 pm
@Phoenix32890,
Quote:

Bella Dea-Agree. Being mostly libertarian is like being slightly pregnant.
Either you are or you aren't. And Palin certainly isn't.

I can 't agree with that.
Have u ever attended libertarian meetings ?

There are pretty dam big differences of opinion
on major issues of controversy, the last that I remember being
whether Elian Gonzalez shoud live his life in communist slavery,
because he is the property of his commie father,
or
whether he shoud live in America until he decides to leave.
Most NY libertarians disagreed with me about letting him live in freedom,
until he chooses to go back and become a slave, of his own volition.

Another big one was the constitutional power to raise an army
and military conscription. During the Third World War, I argued
if we had no army, the Reds woud succeed in enslaving the world
with no significant resistance, and that as a result of their libertarianism,
we 'd live our lives out in communist slavery.

Big differences of vu concerning illegal aliens.

Accordingly, I have found that experience disproves your thesis
of libertarian unity of opinion.
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:45 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
David- I have always characterized myself as a libertarian with a small "l". I have never been interested in the Libertarian Party, so any differences of opinion that they have are of no concern to me.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 01:55 pm
@Phoenix32890,
Quote:

David- I have always characterized myself as a libertarian with a small "l".
I have never been interested in the Libertarian Party,
so any differences of opinion that they have are of no concern to me.


Please note that I said nothing about the Libertarian Party.
I asked:
" Have u ever attended libertarian meetings ? "
That means meetings of libertarian people, not political party meeetings,
tho I have attended those too.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 01:51 pm
@hingehead,
The lock and load comments here are amazing and then when you ask them or assume they are thinking of attacking the government they act surprise that you would come to that conclusion!
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Nov, 2008 01:57 pm
@Setanta,
A modern rifle in the hands of an expert is deadly at over a mile and other weapons that could be gotten can range to a far more distant point.

If you can see a target you can kill that target if you know what you are doing.

Second most of our presidents had been kill or wounded by handguns!

I hope the Secret Service is up to their very hard task.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 08:28 am
The gun industry has been whipping up the gun crowd even going so far as to put Obama’s name on the sale ads. I am not accusing the gun industries of inciting violence against Obama but it is worrisome all the same in what it tells of the mindset of the gun crowd.

Quote:
Gun stores across the nation are reporting a surge in gun sales since the election of Barack Obama. Customers are convinced that Obama either seeks to limit or revoke entirely Americans’ rights to bear arms. As the Chicago Tribune reports today:

Some say they are worried that the incoming Obama administration will attempt to reimpose the ban on assault weapons that expired in 2004. Others fear the loss of their right to own handguns. A few say they are preparing to protect themselves in the event of a race war.

Some gun sellers like Wild West Guns in Anchorage, AK are holding “Obama Sale” events to take advantage of their customers’ misinformed fears and news outlets from NPR to Fox News have produced reports documenting the gun buying binge:

The FBI reported that from November 3-9, they “received over three hundred and seventy thousand requests for background checks on gun buyers” " a 49 percent increase since last year. Moreover, “reports from around the nation suggest the sudden surge of November gun-buying is far surpassing the normal hunting-season spike that often occurs this time of year.”

What the major media outlets overlook is that the Obama gun sale boom appears to be the result of a multimillion dollar effort launched by the National Rifle Association last summer to misinform voters about Obama’s gun policy proposals. As Politico reported in June:

The National Rifle Association plans to spend about $40 million on this year’s campaign, with $15 million of that devoted to portraying Barack Obama as a threat to the Second Amendment rights. … This fall, NRA members will get automated phone calls, mail pieces and pre-election editions of the group’s three magazines making the case against Obama.

The NRA claimed of Obama, “[N]ever in NRA’s history have we faced a presidential candidate … with such a deep-rooted hatred of firearm freedoms.” As FactCheck notes, however, the NRA’s campaign is based almost entirely on falsehoods. Indeed, FactCheck writes, much of the NRA’s campaign “dismisses Obama’s stated position [on gun rights] as ‘rhetoric’ and substitutes its own interpretation of his record as a secret ‘plan.’”

The “political uncertainty” created by the NRA’s misinformation campaign may have more to do with making a sale than it does with shaping gun policy. The New York Times explained last week:

What is clear is that every gun seller " not to mention every advocacy group for gun ownership that depends on dues-paying members " has an incentive to stoke the concern that can prompt a gun sale. Political uncertainty, gun dealers say, is great for business. … “Clinton was the best gun salesman the gun manufacturers ever had,” said Rick Gray, owner of the Accuracy Gun Shop in Las Vegas. “Obama’s going to be right up there with him.”


Links for quotes and fact at the source. I know it is biased and liberal but they source their statements.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/12/obama-gun-sales/
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 10:52 pm
@revel,
People are not dumb, revel. When a candidate talks about a domestic or national security force, people think, hey I need to a gun to protect myself from government tryranny. Thats what the founders feared, and now we have this kind of nonsense being proposed by the great Barack Obama. Again, people are not stupid, they know socialists or Marxists have a history of disliking guns.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 12:18 am
@revel,
Quote:

The gun industry has been whipping up the gun crowd
even going so far as to put Obama’s name on the sale ads.
I am not accusing the gun industries of inciting violence against
Obama but it is worrisome all the same in what it tells of the
mindset of the gun crowd.

It is the same as if he wanted to reinstate Prohibition of alcohol;
stock up, while u can.
 

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